HomeCounter-Racism Radio NetworkCounter-Racism Television NetworkArticlesProjectsCounter-Racism Work/Study ProjectShopping MallContact
Secure DonationsSecure Donations  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  ProfileProfile  Log inLog in

Identifying a Racist Suspect
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Counter-Racism Work/Study Project Forum Index -> Counter-Racism Strategies and Techniques
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Edward Williams
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 10:09 am    Post subject: Identifying a Racist Suspect Reply with quote

Suggestion:
Don't ask a person who says they are a white person if they are a racist White supremacist). Don't ask a person who says they are a white person if they know any other white people that practice racism (white supremacy).

In terms of race, only ask people if they are white people.

Explanation/Reason:
If a person says they are a white person and you deem the person as able to practice racism (white supremacy), according to counter-racist logic, the person is a racist suspect.

The counter-racism science experiment Solidifying Suspicion is tied directly to the suggestion of this counter-racism suggestion.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?


Last edited by Edward Williams on Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:29 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


1. Don't ask a person who says they are a white person if they are a racist White supremacist).

2. Don't ask a person who says they are a white person if they know any other white people that practice racism (white supremacy).


I disagree with this suggestion, especially #2. VORs need to practice asking White people questions about racism White supremacy so they can become comfortable and confident dealing with the topic. While I understand a racist suspect my lie, I think these two questions help:

A. Solidify suspicion

B. Reveal patterns detailing the function of a White person in a system of racism White supremacy.



Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Edward Williams
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
Quote:


1. Don't ask a person who says they are a white person if they are a racist White supremacist).

2. Don't ask a person who says they are a white person if they know any other white people that practice racism (white supremacy).


I disagree with this suggestion, especially #2. VORs need to practice asking White people questions about racism White supremacy so they can become comfortable and confident dealing with the topic. While I understand a racist suspect my lie, I think these two questions help:

A. Solidify suspicion

B. Reveal patterns detailing the function of a White person in a system of racism White supremacy.



Josh

Once a white person tells you they are a racist (white supremacist) what are you going to do with the information?

Once a white person tells you another white person is a racist (white supremacist) what are you going to do with the information?

According to counter-racist logic any white person that is able to practice racism (white supremacy) is a racist suspect.

If a non-white person follows counter-racist logic and a person says they are a white person and the non-white person has determined that the white person is able to practice racism (white supremacy) the white person is automatically a racist suspect.

Once a non-white person has determined that a white person is a racist suspect that white person is a racist suspect only to the non-white person that has determined the white person is able to practice racism (white supremacy). This is what solidifies suspicion...determining that the white person is able to practice racism (white supremacy). That is all of the solidification a non-white person needs because they can't get anymore than that under this SYSTEM. Each individual non-white person has to make that determination all on their own...and not argue with each other about it. Each individual non-white person owes it to themselves to make that determination.

To non-white people a racist suspect is a racist suspect. Non-white people can't prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that one white person practices racism (white supremacy)...not even to another non-white person let alone a white person. That is a determination each individual non-white person makes for themselves.

This approach severely decreases the number of non-white people attempting to practice counter-racism using the United-Dependent method. Ask the person if they are a white person and/or ask a person that says they are a white person if another person is a white person. That is as far as you can go if you are a non-white person because you can't prove anything, beyond a shadow of a doubt, beyond that anyway.

I was in a group of non-white people having a discussion about replacing racism (white supremacy) with justice and running experiments when two people that appeared to be white people came over. One of the males said he was a white person and the other said "I don't characterize myself that way". Interesting. One of the non-white people talked to the white person for over an hour and all the while the white person never gave any constructive information about how to replace racism (white supremacy) with justice, the white person withheld constructive information from the non-white person, etc. and yet the conversation persisted for over an hour. What ended the conversation was the white person said he was a racist (white supremacist). After that, the non-white person said he had no further questions for the white person who said he was a racist (white supremacist).

Why not? Because the white person said he was a racist (white supremacist)? Could the non-white person have determined sooner in the conversation that the white person was able to practice racism (white supremacy) and therefore a racist suspect? How long would the conversation have been if the non-white person had suspected immediately after the person said they were a white person that the person was a racist suspect?

I suspect the conversation would not have taken place for over an hour if the non-white person had thought the white person was a racist suspect. One other thing I thought was interesting was after the conversation the non-white person and the white person, who said he was a racist (white supremacist), swapped contact information.

Isn't that interesting?
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One of the non-white people talked to the white person for over an hour and all the while the white person never gave any constructive information about how to replace racism (white supremacy) with justice, the white person withheld constructive information from the non-white person, etc. and yet the conversation persisted for over an hour. What ended the conversation was the white person said he was a racist (white supremacist). After that, the non-white person said he had no further questions for the white person who said he was a racist (white supremacist).


Yes, this is true. When asked if he is a racist, the White person said no.

An hour later he admitted he is a racist. Now maybe that hour was a waste of time for you, but for me, it was helpful to practice asking a White person who said he is NOT A RACIST, questions about racism White supremacy.

Every deceptive, evasive tactic he tried was one I had seen before. I kept refining my questions until his choices were to:

A. provide constructive effective information to counter racism

B. Admit he was a racist.

He chose "B". I'll admit it took too long to get to this point, but the more I do it, the better I get.

Now keep in mind, while he did admit he was a racist, he did it infront of a bunch of non white people.


Would he do this in front of other White people?

His coworkers?

Family members

Pastor?

Its one thing for a White person to admit they are a racist in front of a bunch of non white people. But if they do it in front of you and other WHITE PEOPLE, the other White people present are forced to "prove" they are not a racist TOO, or become a part of the conspiricy by default.

Now you see whats happening,

The "judge" role has shifted to you.

This doesn't happen very often and I suspect its why his friend left.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Edward Williams
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
Quote:
One of the non-white people talked to the white person for over an hour and all the while the white person never gave any constructive information about how to replace racism (white supremacy) with justice, the white person withheld constructive information from the non-white person, etc. and yet the conversation persisted for over an hour. What ended the conversation was the white person said he was a racist (white supremacist). After that, the non-white person said he had no further questions for the white person who said he was a racist (white supremacist).


Yes, this is true. When asked if he is a racist, the White person said no.

An hour later he admitted he is a racist. Now maybe that hour was a waste of time for you, but for me, it was helpful to practice asking a White person who said he is NOT A RACIST, questions about racism White supremacy.

Every deceptive, evasive tactic he tried was one I had seen before. I kept refining my questions until his choices were to:

A. provide constructive effective information to counter racism

B. Admit he was a racist.

He chose "B". I'll admit it took too long to get to this point, but the more I do it, the better I get.

Now keep in mind, while he did admit he was a racist, he did it infront of a bunch of non white people.


Would he do this in front of other White people?

His coworkers?

Family members

Pastor?

Its one thing for a White person to admit they are a racist in front of a bunch of non white people. But if they do it in front of you and other WHITE PEOPLE, the other White people present are forced to "prove" they are not a racist TOO, or become a part of the conspiricy by default.

Now you see whats happening,

The "judge" role has shifted to you.

This doesn't happen very often and I suspect its why his friend left.

I don't know if we're talking about the same conversation. The conversation I'm talking about memes were discussed, automobiles were discussed, traffic lights were discussed, non-white males practicing sexism against a non-white female was discussed, whether or not I was a male was discussed and once the proof was provided to be examined that topic was quickly dropped...etc....etc...infinitum. Only a few questions were asked by the non-white person I'm talking about to the white person I'm speaking of about how racism (white supremacy) works and what non-white people can do to counter it.

Why is it important for a white person to admit to being a racist (white supremacist) to a non-white person who is attempting to follow counter-racist logic?
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why is it important for a white person to admit to being a racist (white supremacist) to a non-white person who is attempting to follow counter-racist logic?


Because you can use that information to practice counter racism.


Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Edward Williams
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
Quote:
Why is it important for a white person to admit to being a racist (white supremacist) to a non-white person who is attempting to follow counter-racist logic?


Because you can use that information to practice counter racism.


Josh

According to counter-racist logic, any white person that is able to be a racist (white supremacist) has to be suspected of being one...whether they admit to being one or not. The question asked above makes reference to a non-white person attempting to follow counter-racist logic.

If a non-white person is attempting to follow counter-racist logic...meaning the non-white person suspects the white person is a racist (white supremacist) if they are able to practice racism (white supremacy)...the white person doesn't have to say they are a racist (white supremacist) for the non-white person to take that position.

Having long conversations attempting to get a white person to admit they are a racist (white supremacist) when, if you are following counter-racist logic, you should suspect the white person of being one if they are able to practice racism (white supremacy) is a waste of time.

But you got VGQ.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Having long conversations attempting to get a white person to admit they are a racist (white supremacist) when, if you are following counter-racist logic, you should suspect the white person of being one if they are able to practice racism (white supremacy) is a waste of time.


That should not be the purpose of the conversation. Once a person answers the critical question with a "yes", they are a racist suspect. The purpose is to get information about the system of racism White supremacy from a White person.

If at some point the White person says they are a racist, then that is some of the information you got, about the system of racism White supremacy.

If the White person says another White person is a racist, then that is some of the information you got about the system of racism White supremacy.

If the White person says they are having sexual intercourse with a Black person, then that is some of the information you got about the system of racism White supremacy...

If a White person says they are a racist, you should suspect they are one, it sure ain't "hearsay" or gossip.

Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Edward Williams
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
Quote:
Having long conversations attempting to get a white person to admit they are a racist (white supremacist) when, if you are following counter-racist logic, you should suspect the white person of being one if they are able to practice racism (white supremacy) is a waste of time.


That should not be the purpose of the conversation. Once a person answers the critical question with a "yes", they are a racist suspect. The purpose is to get information about the system of racism White supremacy from a White person.

If at some point the White person says they are a racist, then that is some of the information you got, about the system of racism White supremacy.

If the White person says another White person is a racist, then that is some of the information you got about the system of racism White supremacy.

If the White person says they are having sexual intercourse with a Black person, then that is some of the information you got about the system of racism White supremacy...

If a White person says they are a racist, you should suspect they are one, it sure ain't "hearsay" or gossip.

Josh

And what do you do with that information in each of those scenarios you laid out?

The person is already a racist suspect and that is as far as you can go anyway. Even if the person says they are a racist (white supremacist) you can only say they are a racist suspect...because another white person can always come along and say they are not a racist (white supremacist) or the same white person can later say they never said it. A racist suspect means you already suspect the white person does all of those things. You don't have to wait for them to tell you that they do them.

Now what?
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The person is already a racist suspect and that is as far as you can go anyway. Even if the person says they are a racist (white supremacist) you can only say they are a racist suspect...because another white person can always come along and say they are not a racist (white supremacist) or the same white person can later say they never said it. A racist suspect means you already suspect the white person does all fo those things.

Now what are you going to do?



You use the information they give you to practice counter racism.

Look, you are suggesting to non white people to jump past the "lab work" to get to where you are.

Thats fine for those who can do it.

But for those who can't, they may need a White person to tell them "I am a racist".


And if that comes about through their use of counter racist code, so be it.

For me, The utility of the question "are you a racist?" comes when the White person says "no".

Why?

Because then we can work on producing Justice.

As the work proceeds and the White person begins evade questions and "drag their feet" providing information about the system of racism White supremacy, the racist suspect definition is solidified.

Then they get to where you are at.

You are asking non white people to skip this step.

I suspect they can't, I couldn't.

Ergo my disagreement with your suggestion.


Josh


"Unfortunatly Neo, no one can be told what "it" is...you have to see it for yourself" --Morpheus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Edward Williams
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
Quote:
The person is already a racist suspect and that is as far as you can go anyway. Even if the person says they are a racist (white supremacist) you can only say they are a racist suspect...because another white person can always come along and say they are not a racist (white supremacist) or the same white person can later say they never said it. A racist suspect means you already suspect the white person does all fo those things.

Now what are you going to do?



You use the information they give you to practice counter racism.

Look, you are suggesting to non white people to jump past the "lab work" to get to where you are.

I'm suggesting non-white people follow counter-racist logic...not follow me. There are a lot of non-white people who are looking to be followed...I ain't one of them. That is the reason I laid out THE LOGIC. If you have a disagreement with THE LOGIC that is between you and THE LOGIC (counter-racist logic). No problem there.

Josh wrote:
Thats fine for those who can do it.

But for those who can't, they may need a White person to tell them "I am a racist".

Is it counter-racist logic that a non-white person is required to have a white person to tell them they are a racist (white supremacist) before they can suspect the white person of being a racist (white supremacist)?


Josh wrote:
And if that comes about through their use of counter racist code, so be it.

For me, The utility of the question "are you a racist?" comes when the White person says "no".

Why?

Because then we can work on producing Justice.

Can a non-white person work on producing a SYSTEM of justice without asking a white person if they are a racist (white supremacist)?

Josh wrote:
As the work proceeds and the White person begins evade questions and "drag their feet" providing information about the system of racism White supremacy, the racist suspect definition is solidified.

Then they get to where you are at.

You are asking non white people to skip this step.

I suspect they can't, I couldn't.

Ergo my disagreement with your suggestion.


Josh


"Unfortunatly Neo, no one can be told what "it" is...you have to see it for yourself" --Morpheus

Please answer the questions posed.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is it counter-racist logic that a non-white person is required to have a white person to tell them they are a racist (white supremacist) before they can suspect the white person of being a racist (white supremacist)?



No

Quote:
Can a non-white person work on producing a SYSTEM of justice without asking a white person if they are a racist (white supremacist)?



Yes


Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Edward Williams
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
Quote:
Is it counter-racist logic that a non-white person is required to have a white person to tell them they are a racist (white supremacist) before they can suspect the white person of being a racist (white supremacist)?



No

Quote:
Can a non-white person work on producing a SYSTEM of justice without asking a white person if they are a racist (white supremacist)?



Yes


Josh

Thank you.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait a minute,

The title of this thread is "Identifying a Racist Suspect", I didn't process the last word in the title. So yes, all you hafta do is ask them if they are a White person.

You do NOT hafta ask them if they are a racist.

You do NOT hafta ask them if they are a racist suspect.

Sorry.

see how hard this is when you are a nigger?


(((shakin my head)))

Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dan Freeman



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 650
Location: Wherever I'm sent.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intresting exchange.

I think what is important here is that counter-racism is about fast-forwarding directly to problem solving without doing any form of "dancing".

As a victim, you are all "proof" you need. No more discussion needed on that issue.

No need to go over all of the "intricacies" of how the system of racism/white supremacy works among people in order to solve a problem.

If race is the topic between a white person and a non white person, the critical question is simply, "are you a white person"?

From that point on, things should move toward problem solving and/or some other form of constructive use of time and energy.

Any other interaction between a white person and a non-white person is either Tacky, Trashy, or as in many cases, Terroristic.

Winston
_________________
Understanding is honoring the truth beneath the surface.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Counter-Racism Work/Study Project Forum Index -> Counter-Racism Strategies and Techniques All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Web CalendarShopping MallDonations