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What are you teaching your child...
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Choctow



Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 2:00 pm    Post subject: What are you teaching your child... Reply with quote

about white supremacy/racism?

Our children are growing up in a time where the things that we (30 & over) did or the influences we had have changed. Now, this is not to say that white supremacy/racism wasn’t prevalent back in the day, however, to me it seems that white people are coming on stronger with the maintenance, expansion, and refinement of white supremacy/racism today.

Are we speaking the truth to our children about white supremacy/racism? If so, what are you saying to them that reveals the truth about WS/R and how are they responding to what you are telling them?
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Josh



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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have offspring (that I know of, heh heh) but I think the best counter racism strategy for non white children is to just encourage them to ASK QUESTIONS.

I knew at an early age that racism was a subject that adults were uncomfortable with so I adjusted my behavior accordingly and avoided the issue as much as possible.

The White supremacists also train non white people to avoid the subject by rewarding those non white people who express their reluctance to focus on White supremacy.

I was recently listening to C-SPAN and the secretary of health and Human services was answering questions from I think middle school students. I was listening to it on the radio so I could not see him but he is described as the first "Hispanic" to hold the office.

As I was listening a student stood up and asked him if he had "ever suffered discrimination/bigotry..."

He said Yes, he had but that "I don't focus negetive things..." He spent about 5 minute addressing the students question but the longer he talked about it, the less you knew it had anything to do with the question the student asked (racism).

He handled the question the way a White person would have handled it (if a White person could actually answer the question with a "yes"). His answer was smooth and graceful and after all he is a member of the president cabinet **so racism can't be that bad can it?**

The more convincing a non white person can make the argument about why they don't focus on racism, the more assistance White people will offer them in becomming a successful non white person.

I think the key format is to tell stories about "how you overcame..." because it makes people FEEL good. Supermodels do this all the time, they talk about how ugly they were in high school and how they had no friends...

It "keeps hope alive" and compensatory behavior "dead".

Try to provide a fertile enviroment for children to ask questions, a low fear level and patience helps

Josh
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: What are you teaching your child... Reply with quote

Choctow wrote:
about white supremacy/racism?

Our children are growing up in a time where the things that we (30 & over) did or the influences we had have changed. Now, this is not to say that white supremacy/racism wasn’t prevalent back in the day, however, to me it seems that white people are coming on stronger with the maintenance, expansion, and refinement of white supremacy/racism today.

Are we speaking the truth to our children about white supremacy/racism? If so, what are you saying to them that reveals the truth about WS/R and how are they responding to what you are telling them?


How is this topic related to Sex under White Supremacy (Racism)?

One of the things I do is tell my daughter the truth and teach her HOW to reveal truth using words by teaching her HOW to come up with definitions of words that reveal truth and are counter-racist logic in nature.

I give her exercises where she is required to come up with a definition of a word that best reveals truth and in doing so also teaches her HOW to reveal truth. One thing the definitions in the UICCSC have in common is that they have, built in them, the logic of counter-racism.

For example, the word justice is defined as guaranteeing that no person is mistreated and also guaranteeing the person that needs help the most gets the most help. If you want justice that's what you must do...in other words that's the logic of justice. Everyone reading this KNOWS what the logic of sexual intercourse is...we all KNOW what we must do when we do it. The logic of justice is that you have to guarantee that no person is mistreated and you have to guarantee the person that needs help the most gets the most help. That's when you know you have justice. Whatever definition you give to sexual intercourse should describe what you have when you have it.

The logic of the word justice, as it is defined in the UICCSC is built into the definition. This way you can easily gauge if you have it or not. This helps the thinking process as well. This is the logic of using words to reveal truth and this is one of the things I teach my daughter.
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Choctow



Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is this topic related to Sex under White Supremacy (Racism)?

According to the UICCSC as long as WS/R exist non-white people should not engage in any act of sexual intercourse except for one. or both, of the following reasons:

1. To help to provide comfort for, incentive to, and promote constructive communication between, those VOR (non-white people) who repeatedly strive to speak and/or act to resist or eliminate Racism (White Supremacy)

2. Production of offsprings.

If you are participating in sexual intercourse for reason number 2 are you prepared to teach your offspring’s about this phenomenon called WS/R? If so, what are you telling them and how are they reacting to what you are telling them about WS/R?
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"White folks don't want peace; they want quiet. The price you pay for peace is justice. Until there is justice, there will be no peace and quiet." Jesse Jackson, 1969
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Trina



Joined: 25 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 11:26 am    Post subject: Re:What are you teaching your children about White Supremacy Reply with quote

Well, Choctow

As I engage myself in the process of de-niggerization and train myself to ask questions about White Supremacy/Racism, I also explain to my son in simple terms what is White Supremacy/Racism. I encourage him to notice people's behavior and words. I also encourage him to ask questions so that hopefully he won't have to go through de-niggerization like me.

I also tell him about experiences he is going to have as a young black male under a system of White Supremacy/Racism and how non white people like him are viewed by White people. I am not sure if he grasps it. I ask him if he understands what I say to him and he says he does. Time will tell. I think I will try what V_GOD does with his offspring.


Trina


Choctow,

Do you have offspring? What do you tell your offspring about White Supremacy/Racism and do you think they understand?
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Choctow



Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re:What are you teaching your children about White Supremacy Reply with quote

Trina wrote:

Choctow,
Do you have offspring? What do you tell your offspring about White Supremacy/Racism and do you think they understand?

No, I don't have any children yet. However, I do have nieces and nephews that I talk to about white supremacy/racism but my conversation with them is limited because of their parents. You know the kind…the first time they encounter mistreatment by a white person they want to holler RACISM any other time they pretend it doesn’t exist ((shaking my head)). I do let my nieces and nephews know that they are white people in this known universe that is not interested in producing justice and correctness and those people will make rules that enable them to maintain a system of injustice toward you. I guess they understand me because they say they understand, however, I’m not quiet sure they do.

I just asked my 12-year-old niece about a week ago to write me a paper (2 pages or less) that explains what she knows about white supremacy/racism. Here is an example of what she’s written (I actually gave her 2 weeks to finish it):

“Here’s what I know about white supremacy/racism: I know that racism was started by Anglo-Americans during and after slavery. I think it still exists because they don’t want African-Americans to have the same freedom they have. Although racism isn’t allowed some Anglos are still prejudice. I know that slavery was started because the Anglo-Americans went to Africa and brought back African-Americans as workers or as slaves, because they were too lazy to do their own work!”—this is still a work in progress and I can’t wait to read the finished product.

Now, so far it sounds like something straight from a school textbook.
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"White folks don't want peace; they want quiet. The price you pay for peace is justice. Until there is justice, there will be no peace and quiet." Jesse Jackson, 1969
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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Choctow, it will be interesting to read the finished product.

But what I wanna do is ask questions of a White child, say about 9 years old. I want to see the "White code" while its in the process of being "installed".

How would a 7 to 9 year old White person answer questions such as:

1. Are you a White person?

2. How do you know you are a White person?

3. Do you enjoy being a White person? if so, why?



These are just a few questions I would ask.

I have a good idea how non white people (Black people) find out they are non white, and I have a hypothesis of how White people find out they are White, but I need more data; specifically from those White people who have not yet acquired the ability to throw "buckets" of words at me.

If you are missing an arm or a leg, most adults will pretend you aren't but a child might walk up to you and ask you: "where did your leg go...what happened to it?"

Not only that, a child may tell you, "maybe you can get another one"

I was rinding in a car with some White people one time and their 5 year old son said: "I have a friend at school, he is brown like you".

Later as I thought about the "child code" I began to suspect that children place all adults in a separate catagory called "adult". The distiction of color can be made, but it has no more relevance than the color of pets, cars, clothing...

I suspect that a child learns about the system of White supremacy by existing in one. EVEN IF NO ONE TALKS DIRECTLY ABOUT IT.

But I could be incorrect.

Josh
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
I was rinding in a car with some White people one time and their 5 year old son said: "I have a friend at school, he is brown like you".

Later as I thought about the "child code" I began to suspect that children place all adults in a separate catagory called "adult". The distiction of color can be made, but it has no more relevance than the color of pets, cars, clothing...

Josh, if that is correct why did ther child think it neccessary to even say what the child said?

If the category the child perceived you in has no releveance why did the child say you are brown and what is the relevance of the child even mentioning that you are brown?

I suspect that if the child is a white person that child KNOWS something about HOW racism white supremacy works. Otherwise what is the purpose for saying that?
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Josh



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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Josh, if that is correct why did their child think it neccessary to even say what the child said?--VGOD

Hmmm,

good point. Thats the kind of question I would like to explore without the childs parents nearby.

I think Dr Welsing is of the opinion that the skin color "strikes" people who lack it (White people) and in turn brings forth feelings of inadequecy which in turn leads to attempts to degrade that which they are unable to achieve.

I can't find my copy of the Cress Theory of Color Confrontation, but I think she calls it [Reaction Formation].

Its interesting that many people say Welsing's theory is without foundation but they have no problem with Freuds theory of "penis envy".

Maybe the White child at the early age of 5 was already picking up "White code" by learning the importance of distinguishing skin color in people.

The child made this statement without any prompting on the part of the adults.

I'd like to get more data.

Josh
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Choctow



Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
I was rinding in a car with some White people one time and their 5 year old son said: "I have a friend at school, he is brown like you".

Later as I thought about the "child code" I began to suspect that children place all adults in a separate catagory called "adult". The distiction of color can be made, but it has no more relevance than the color of pets, cars, clothing...

Virtual_GOD wrote:
Josh, if that is correct why did ther child think it neccessary to even say what the child said?

If the category the child perceived you in has no releveance why did the child say you are brown and what is the relevance of the child even mentioning that you are brown?

I suspect that if the child is a white person that child KNOWS
something about HOW racism white supremacy works. Otherwise what is the purpose for saying that?

When I keep my 3-year-old nephew from time to time I teach him things like his alphabets and identifying his colors (black, brown, white, red, orange, blue, etc.) he has a book called “Friendly Songs” published by Fisher Price. On the cover of this book is a group of children in which I suspects represents an Asian girl because she has Black hair and slanted eyes, a Brown boy because he has black curly hair and brown skin, a White boy because he has yellow hair and black eyes, and 2 white girls one with yellow hair and one with red hair. Now, I use this book as tool to help him to identify his colors based on the colors found on his flash cards that I made him. I tell him to show me the color black and he points at the Asian girls hair, I tell him to show me the color brown and he points at the Brown boy face and so on…

Does this mean when I ask him to point at the color brown and he points at the brown boy because that is the color of brown on his flash card he knows something about HOW racism white supremacy works?
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"White folks don't want peace; they want quiet. The price you pay for peace is justice. Until there is justice, there will be no peace and quiet." Jesse Jackson, 1969
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Trina



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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

I observed an interesting phenomenon about 2 years ago while I was babysitting a 3 month old Black boy and a 2 year old White girl. The baby boy was very dark-skinned and he was laying on my lap as I a giving him his bottle and the little White girl walked up to him and started staring at him.

I think she was trying to figure out what or who he was. She stared at him a long time. After a while she said "baby" and I replied "yes a baby." I thought this was somewhat interesting because she had a 1 month old baby sister and would play with her White baby doll from time to time as well as some of the Black baby dolls my mother collected. After that, she touched the baby on his head and then wiped her hand on her pants. The baby was not wet or dirty. I suspect she was reacting to the child's very dark skin. She could barely say her name, however, at that age I think she was learning to assign a value to color. Her color is clean and the non-white child's color is dirty.

On the other hand, she could not keep away from my son who I was home-schooling at the time. Wherever he would go, she would follow. Whatever he was doing she would want to participate. Mind you, my son is dark brown in color. Unfortunately, I did not know enough to ask her whether she was White just to see if I could get a yes or no. She could barely say her name and could not tell you if she needed to go to the "potty" or not. And she was not retarded, not by a long shot!


Trina


Last edited by Trina on Tue May 27, 2003 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Choctow wrote:
When I keep my 3-year-old nephew from time to time I teach him things like his alphabets and identifying his colors (black, brown, white, red, orange, blue, etc.) he has a book called “Friendly Songs” published by Fisher Price. On the cover of this book is a group of children in which I suspects represents an Asian girl because she has Black hair and slanted eyes, a Brown boy because he has black curly hair and brown skin, a White boy because he has yellow hair and black eyes, and 2 white girls one with yellow hair and one with red hair. Now, I use this book as tool to help him to identify his colors based on the colors found on his flash cards that I made him. I tell him to show me the color black and he points at the Asian girls hair, I tell him to show me the color brown and he points at the Brown boy face and so on…

Does this mean when I ask him to point at the color brown and he points at the brown boy because that is the color of brown on his flash card he knows something about HOW racism white supremacy works?


I would say if you want to know if your nephew KNOWS something about how racism white supremacy works ask him to point to the black person. If he points to the person that looks like his uncle that would be interesting.

Then ask him why didn't he point to the "Asian" person. Isn't the "Asian" person black too? See, non-white people learn at a very early age to differentiate people from a non-white perspective. That's why I say a non-white person has 3 identifiers:

(1) Have been classified as non-white
(2) Functions as non-white in their relationships with other non-white people
(3) Functions as non-white in their relationships with white people

Gotta have all three!

To a white person the "Asian" person is COLORED...just like his uncle.
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Trina wrote:
I observed an interesting phenomenon about 2 years ago, while I was babysitting a 3 month old Black boy and a 2 year old White girl. The baby boy was very dark-skinned and he was laying on my lap as I a giving him his bottle and the little White girl walked up to him and started staring at him.

I think she was trying to figure out what or who he was. She stared at him a long time. After a while she said "baby" and I replied "yes a baby".
I thought this was somewhat interesting because she had a 1 month old baby sister and would play with her White baby doll from time to time as well as some of the Black baby dolls my mother collected. After that, she touched the baby on his head and then wiped her hand on her pants. The baby not wet or dirty. I suspect she was reacting to the child's very dark skin. She could barely say her name, however, at that age I think she was learning to assign a value to color. Her color is clean and the non-white child's color is dirty.

On the other hand, she could not keep away from my son who I was home-schooling at the time. Wherever he would go, she would follow. Whatever he was doing she would want to participate. Mind you, my son is dark brown in color. Unfortunately, I did not know enough to ask her whether she was White just to see if I could get a yes or no. She could barely say her name and could not tell you if she needed to go to the "potty" or not. And she was not retarded, not by a long shot!


Trina


Now that's interesting!
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JohnnySmash



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: What are you teaching your child... Reply with quote

Quote:

I observed an interesting phenomenon about 2 years ago, while I was babysitting a 3 month old Black boy and a 2 year old White girl. The baby boy was very dark-skinned and he was laying on my lap as I a giving him his bottle and the little White girl walked up to him and started staring at him.

I think she was trying to figure out what or who he was. She stared at him a long time. After a while she said "baby" and I replied "yes a baby".
I thought this was somewhat interesting because she had a 1 month old baby sister and would play with her White baby doll from time to time as well as some of the Black baby dolls my mother collected. After that, she touched the baby on his head and then wiped her hand on her pants. The baby not wet or dirty. I suspect she was reacting to the child's very dark skin. She could barely say her name, however, at that age I think she was learning to assign a value to color. Her color is clean and the non-white child's color is dirty.

On the other hand, she could not keep away from my son who I was home-schooling at the time. Wherever he would go, she would follow. Whatever he was doing she would want to participate. Mind you, my son is dark brown in color. Unfortunately, I did not know enough to ask her whether she was White just to see if I could get a yes or no. She could barely say her name and could not tell you if she needed to go to the "potty" or not. And she was not retarded, not by a long shot!


Trina


That IS interesting because it has been shown that children often won't notice racial differences at a young age. On one thing I heard about they sent a white guy and a black guy into a Sunday school class and asked the kids if they could tell any differences between them. They came up with stuff like "He wears glasses" or "He is bald", but didn't say anything about their skin- even after they had exhausted every other possible answer. No- they were not being polite. They didn't notice until one of the men pointed it out. Kids just don't think of it as different.

And personally I don't recommend teaching your kids to hate whitey. If whitey is that bad they would learn it themselves. Believe it or not- white people don't have some conspiracy where we teach all our kids to hate blacks. It's just not true- I didn't even really think of blacks as different until middle school.

Also kids will misinterprite or over-exaggurate EVERYTHING. When they get older they may get to distrust white people or may think they are evil. Although it does seem to be the general consensus on this site that whites spend our every living moment trying to get at you (like we'd care so much), teaching your kids that whites are not to be trusted isn't going to help anything.

Oh yes, and for the final time- Racism is a broader topic than just white supremacy. You can have racists of any race. In fact, saying that whites are the only ones that can be racist is racist in itself.

-JohnnySmash
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cidiera



Joined: 23 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:26 pm    Post subject: five year old vacation Reply with quote

the first time I can remember realizing the difference between white and black is in kindergarten on a family trip to south carolina. I was playing with some other white kids. A little black girl came up to play with us. She asked our permission. I said yes, but the little girls next to me said, "no way! get outta here!" I looked at them and asked them why they did that, and they said, "I ain't gonna let no nigger girl play with me!" and they went back to digging in the sand. I joined them knowing that something really bad had just happened, but not really understanding it.
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