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Constructive Information About Who Practices Racism

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mel



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:32 pm† †Post subject: Constructive Information About Who Practices Racism Reply with quote

Observation Phenomenon:
I have observed that white people, when asked to give constructive information about which white people practice racism (white supremacy), and/or how to counter racism in a specific area of people activity will do the following:
1.) Deny knowledge of how white people practice racism (white supremacy). 2.) Deny knowledge of whether the suspected white person practices racism (white supremacy). 3.) Deny that the suspected white person practices racism (white supremacy), even going as far as to defend that suspected white person. What I find especially interesting is this behavior is consistent even when the white person being asked to give constructive information about suspected white person(s) who may or may not be practicing racism (white supremacy) do not know the suspected white person personally.

Hypothesis:
Under the current system of racism (white supremacy), ALL white people who are able to practice racism will withhold constructive information about which white people practice racism from Non-white people. This includes constructive information about how to counter racism (white supremacy). I suspect that this is because ALL white people who are able to practice racism know the value or being white in a system of racism (white supremacy) and will defend that by any means necessary, including indirect and direct violence. Thus, if a white person withholds constructive information about which white people may or may not be practicing racism that white person may be practicing racism.

[Experiment:
Select and ask a white person the following:

Since the Presidential elections are coming up I wanted to be able to vote for the best Presidential Candidate. In order to do this I have to know everything there is to know about the candidate that is pertinent to being president.
Do you mind if I ask you which presidential candidate you are supporting?


If they tell you ask:

Is that candidate a white person?

Are you a white person?

What is that candidateís stance on race? (And by race i mean does that candidate practice racism (white supremacy), meaning the mistreatment of people on the basis of color in any or all of the areas of people activity including education, economics, entertainment, labor, law, politics, religion, sex, and war?)

If the answer is, I do not know whether this person practices racism, (or I do not know this personís stance on race) ask:

Thank you, but if you do not know if that Presidential Candidate practices racism, (give counter racist definition of racism again if you deem it necessary) then why do you support him/her? (If you want to take this line of questioning further then follow the LOGIC. I suggest a stop after this is answered.)

If the answer is yes this person does practice racism then ask:

Thank you; please inform me of the specific ways that this Presidential candidate practices racism in one or all areas of people activity, that you are aware of. (If you want to take this line of questioning further then follow the LOGIC.)

If the answer is, no this person does not practice racism then ask:

Thank you, but how do you determine if a white person is not practicing racism? And /Or (How do you know if a white person is practicing racism?) Please inform me of the specific ways in which this Presidential candidate proposes to solve the race problem in this country and the world. (If you want to follow this line of questioning further then follow the LOGIC.)

Record data:
The interviewer will record the data for this particular experiment for educational purposes. The interviewee will be informed that this is an experiment/educational device and will be recorded for future use and study.

Expected Results:
1.) When a Non-white person asks a white person for constructive information regarding which specific white people practice racism (white supremacy), white people will use deception and/or direct violence in order to evade directly answering the question.

2.) White people will defend white people who they do not personally know, and who a Non-white person suspects of being a racist.

3.) White people will admit that the suspected white person practices racism (white supremacy) but will not tell Non-white people specific ways that the suspect white person practices racism, or how Non-white people can counter racism in a specific area.

4.) When asked by a Non-white person to provide specific information about whether a white person practices racism (white supremacy), white people will attempt to shift the focus of the conversation onto Non-white people.









[/b]
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RangerX



Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:42 am† †Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting observations/experiment.

Quote:
I have observed that white people, when asked to give constructive information about which white people practice racism (white supremacy), and/or how to counter racism in a specific area of people activity will do the following:
1.) Deny knowledge of how white people practice racism (white supremacy). 2.) Deny knowledge of whether the suspected white person practices racism (white supremacy). 3.) Deny that the suspected white person practices racism (white supremacy), even going as far as to defend that suspected white person. What I find especially interesting is this behavior is consistent even when the white person being asked to give constructive information about suspected white person(s) who may or may not be practicing racism (white supremacy) do not know the suspected white person personally. -mel


and I suspect this is why, Under the System of Racism White Supremacy, every White Person ("Non-Colored" Person) who is able to Practice Racism White Supremacy, is a Racist Suspect.

Non-White People do not know the "Who" and the "How"...

Because ain't no White People (unless you know a White Person who does) informing Non-White People on which White Person(s) exactly practice Racism White Supremacy and How do they practice Racism White Supremacy...

Like a White Person (Parent) of his/her Non-White offspring Not informing his/her Non-White offspring about Which White Person(s) practice Racism White Supremacy and which White Person(s) do not practice Racism White Supremacy.

Or when a White Parent is fearful and unhappy about his/her daugther giving birth to a Non-White child...why ?

"The mix child will have it much harder" (will have it much harder than what People ? why ? what people will give the *mixed*-child a "harder" time ?)

"I know how society is" (by society do you mean People ? if so What People ?...and how "is" Society-People ?)

When you ask a White Person for the Who, What, When, Where, Why and How a White Person practices Racism White Supremacy, they will dump a huge bucket full of words on you, with vague "fuzzy" words/terms such as "Society is..." and "It is more difficult for..." or do a 180 degree turn and shift the focus onto Non-White People, sometimes they may even start laughing and try to "joke' their way out of the conversation (and questions). ***This is why I will continue to keep my Q&A to a "Yes" or "No"-Answer format as much as possible.***

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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:21 pm† †Post subject: Reply with quote

Mel, I think that ones a "keeper". I have noticed a reluctence among White people to "out" racists White supremacists. And just like you stated, their level of familiarity with said suspect appears to have little effect on their cooperation.

Even White people who don't like each other rarely charge each other with being a racist.

I suspect this phenomenon (or lack of) is related to White peoples knowledge of:

1. The existence of the system of racism White supremacy.

2. Their position in the power dynamic of racism White supremacy.


So why is it difficult for a White person to tell you if another White person is a White supremacist?

Because the "proof" they will need to use is evidence of their participation in the conspiracy that is racism White supremacy.

Now,

How does a White person avoid this "racial paradox"?


Said White person/s should surrender such information without prompt or request from victims of racism.

In other words, you shouldn't hafta ask a White person which White people practice racism White supremacy.

They should just tell you.

ESPECIALLY if its the White person you are engaging in sexual intercourse with!


My only suggestion for the experiment is some further refinement with the language to reduce the amount of words for purposes of clarity.

Josh
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:21 pm† †Post subject: Reply with quote

Mel,

Since the "presidential elections" will be completed for another four years after November 11, 2004 you may want to think about offering an alternative line of questioning for the experiment. Just a thought.

Excellent experiment.
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mel



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:24 pm† †Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
V_God wrote:

Mel,

Since the "presidential elections" will be completed for another four years after November 11, 2004 you may want to think about offering an alternative line of questioning for the experiment. Just a thought.


Thanks for the suggestion. How about this variation:


Experiment Variation:

This variation involves what may result in a dangerous situation for any Non-white who attempts it, but I expect it to place great pressure on white people to either reveal which white people practice racism or revert to indirect/direct violence. This variation involves asking a white person who is your immediate Superior Advisor, if the specific person(s) who work for the company (in charge of making employee promotion decisions) practice racism (white supremacy). This variation is only intended as a LAST RESORT, in cases where Non-white people maybe passed up for raises, and/or promotions at their respective places of employment, but have a back up plan in case you are forced out of employment by the racists (white supremacists).

First a brief background: I have been working at my job for more than two years. My level of education and experience, had I been born a white person, would considered more than adequate, and arguably over qualified for the current position. Thus, for the past three months I have been following the company mandated procedures for employees seeking promotion. The responses that I have received have from the companyís vice president, human resources administrator, and superior advisor have not been very specific but have expressed that they would consider me for future positions. However, I have not been told what specific positions are available, when a position may open, or what I may be considered for even though I have asked. This leaves me in a state of confusion, and poses a problem for me, since as a Non-white person I do not have a mechanism to tell me whether these specific white people are practicing racism (white supremacy).

Thus I will ask my superior advisor the following:

As you know, I wanted to move to a position within the company that would enable me to have greater responsibility and greater compensation. However, the responses that I have received have been troubling for me because they leave me with a feeling of uncertainty. Therefore, I wanted to ask you several specific questions so that I get clarification. Do you mind if I ask you some questions about the Vice President of the company?

If the answer is, no I do not mind then ask:

Is the V.P. (or the person in charge of employee promotion) a white person?

If the answer is yes then, you can ask:

Are you a white person? (I already know the answer to this question is yes so I may not ask.)

What is the V.P.ís position of race relations within the workplace? By race I mean, does the V.P. practice racism (white supremacy), or the mistreatment of people on the basis of color in any or all of the areas of people activity including: economics, education, entertainment, labor, law, politics, religion, sex, and war.

If the answer is I do not know then ask:

Thank you for your response. If you do not know if the V.P. practices racism white supremacy then how do you propose to find out if the V.P. practices racism (white supremacy), and what do you propose to do to counter it if he does practice racism. (After this keep asking questions, and following the LOGIC so that you either obtain concrete executable counter racist compensatory code for this specific area, or you have determined that your Superior Advisor is not providing constructive information and is thus practicing racism.)

If the answer is yes the V.P. practices racism then ask:

Thank you for your response. Please inform me of the specific ways that the V.P. practices racism in one or all areas of people activity, that you are aware of. Also, please inform me of what you think should be done to help me counter it racism in the area of Labor. (If you want to take this line of questioning further then follow the LOGIC.)

If the answer is no the V.P. does not practice racism, (because company policy is as stated...) then ask:

Thank you for you response. How do you determine if a white person is not practicing racism in the work place? And /Or (How do you know if a white person is practicing racism in the work place?) Please inform me of the specific ways in which the V.P., and yourself propose to solve the race problem within the company. (If you want to follow this line of questioning further then follow the LOGIC.)

Record data:
The employee will record the data for this particular experiment for educational purposes. I will be asking these questions via email or company memo so that my Superior Advisor is aware that I am keeping a written record of the conversation. I suggest this method to those interested in trying the experiment. I will post my data to this site as soon I get a return email from my Superior Advisor.

Expected Results:
1.) When a Non-white person asks a white person for constructive information regarding which specific white people practice racism (white supremacy), white people will use deception and/or direct violence in order to evade directly answering the question.

2.) White people will defend white people who may or may not personally know, and who a Non-white person suspects of being a racist.

3.) White people will admit that the suspected white person practices racism (white supremacy) but will not tell Non-white people specific ways that the suspect white person practices racism, or how Non-white people can counter racism in a specific area.

4.) When asked by a Non-white person to provide specific information about whether a white person practices racism (white supremacy) in the area of labor, white people will attempt to shift the focus of the conversation onto Non-white people.

5.) When asked by a Non-white person to provide specific information about whether a specific white person practices racism (white supremacy) in the specific area of labor, white people will attempt to deflect questions by telling Non-whites to look at Company Regulations on Discrimination.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:07 am† †Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting variation. I think this variation can be used if needed and/or changed depending on the needs of the person to ask of any white person about another white person.

Excellent. Now when you run it, or whomever runs it, do not forget to take note of the strategies and techniques you use to refine your process for documentation in the Counter-Racism Strategies and Techniques forum, record the correct uses of words as you refine your process for documentation in the Using Words Correctly forum, record the definition of words used to reveal truth in such a manner that justice and correctness is promoted as you refine your process for documentation in the Counter-Racism Definitionary forum, record THE LOGIC (counter-racist logic) used as you refine your process for documentation in the Following THE LOGIC forum, record any strategies and techniques you can use on the job as you refine your process for documentation in the How To Counter Racism (White Supremacy) In the Workplace forum, and record any strategies and techniques that can be used to produce correct interaction between males and females as you refine your process for documentation in the SEX Under White Supremacy (Racism) forum.

Happy Countering Racism (White Supremacy)!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:53 am† †Post subject: Reply with quote

Mel, I concur with your observations and applaud your effort to study them scientifically. I have color coded some comments/suggestions on improving that effort: Green = Good scientific format. Red or orange= suggested improvements

Observation Phenomenon:
I have observed that white people, when asked to give constructive information about which white people practice racism (white supremacy), and/or how to counter racism in a specific area of people activity will do the following:
1.) Deny knowledge of how white people practice racism (white supremacy). 2.) Deny knowledge of whether the suspected white person practices racism (white supremacy). 3.) Deny that the suspected white person practices racism (white supremacy), even going as far as to defend that suspected white person. What I find especially interesting is this behavior is consistent even when the white person being asked to give constructive information about suspected white person(s) who may or may not be practicing racism (white supremacy) do not know the suspected white person personally.


Hypothesis:
Under the current system of racism (white supremacy), ALL (because of the use of the word "all", the hypothesis is not testable.) white people who are able to practice racism will withhold (unless you have evidence that a person has made statements giving the requested information at some prior time, it is not possible to prove that the person is witholding the information or actually does not have that information)information about which white people practice racism from Non-white people. This includes constructive information about how to counter racism (white supremacy). I suspect that this is because ALL white people who are able to practice racism know the value or being white in a system of racism (white supremacy) and will defend that by any means necessary, including indirect and directviolence. This is a separate hypothesis from which a separate proof, empirical(experimental) or deductive, is necessary) Thus, if a white person withholds constructive information about which white people may or may not be practicing racism that white person may be practicing racism. (This is a definition that should preface the hypothesis)

Experiment:
Select and ask a white person the following:

Since the Presidential elections are coming up I wanted to be able to vote for the best Presidential Candidate. In order to do this I have to know everything there is to know about the candidate that is pertinent to being president.
Do you mind if I ask you which presidential candidate you are supporting?

If they tell you ask:

Is that candidate a white person?

Are you a white person?

What is that candidateís stance on race? (And by race i mean does that candidate practice racism (white supremacy), meaning the mistreatment of people on the basis of color in any or all of the areas of people activity including education, economics, entertainment, labor, law, politics, religion, sex, and war?)

If the answer is, I do not know whether this person practices racism, (or I do not know this personís stance on race) ask:

Thank you, but if you do not know if that Presidential Candidate practices racism, (give counter racist definition of racism again if you deem it necessary) then why do you support him/her? (If you want to take this line of questioning further then follow the LOGIC. I suggest a stop after this is answered.)

If the answer is yes this person does practice racism then ask:

Thank you; please inform me of the specific ways that this Presidential candidate practices racism in one or all areas of people activity, that you are aware of. (If you want to take this line of questioning further then follow the LOGIC.)

If the answer is, no this person does not practice racism then ask:

Thank you, but how do you determine if a white person is not practicing racism? And /Or (How do you know if a white person is practicing racism?) Please inform me of the specific ways in which this Presidential candidate proposes to solve the race problem in this country and the world. (If you want to follow this line of questioning further then follow the LOGIC.)

Record data:
The interviewer will record the data for this particular experiment for educational purposes. The interviewee will be informed that this is an experiment/educational device and will be recorded for future use and study.

Expected Results:
1.) When a Non-white person asks a white person for constructive information regarding which specific white people practice racism (white supremacy), white people will use deception and/or direct violence in order to evade directly answering the question.

2.) White people will defend white people who they do not personally know, and who a Non-white person suspects of being a racist.

3.) White people will admit that the suspected white person practices racism (white supremacy) but will not tell Non-white people specific ways that the suspect white person practices racism, or how Non-white people can counter racism in a specific area.

4.) When asked by a Non-white person to provide specific information about whether a white person practices racism (white supremacy), white people will attempt to shift the focus of the conversation onto Non-white people.
(Your expected results need to be correlated to the specific experiment and not simply a restatement of the hypothesis. I.e., "No white person will give any answer which states that a candidate is a Racist." "No white person will give an answer that states how they know whether a person is a racist." etc, You may wish to restate your hypothesis in such a way that it is quantifiable. That is, state the number of people that will be asked. And, you may want to restate your hypothesis so that the answers given by the white persons are compared to information that some number of nonwhite people already know about a particular white person that is being assessed for racist behavior.) Here is a link explaining the scientific method When it comes to counter-racist science, we don't want the equivalent of space shuttle explosions resulting from calculation errors. Please hold my work up to the same scrutiny. It's all for the sake of producing justice.

I'd have had nothing but "co-signs" had this been posted in the "Following the Logic" forum. Given that a white person is someone who self-identifies as such, your analysis goes to the heart of the very important question of "What is a White Person?"
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Last edited by HelixHair on Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mel



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:52 am† †Post subject: Reply with quote

HelixHair,

Thank you very much! I am making the necessary adjustments...

Please stand by...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:51 am† †Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HelixHair has some very good suggestions in this post. I suggest everyone that is able to read these take the time to read it and ask questions if needed.

HelixHair wrote:
Mel, I concur with your observations and applaud your effort to study them scientifically. I have color coded some comments/suggestions on improving that effort: Green = Good scientific format. Red or orange= suggested improvements

Hypothesis:
Under the current system of racism (white supremacy), ALL (because of the use of the word "all", the hypothesis is not testable.) white people who are able to practice racism will withhold (unless you have evidence that a person has made statements giving the requested information at some prior time, it is not possible to prove that the person is witholding the information or actually does not have that information)information about which white people practice racism from Non-white people.

This is of particular interest. The suggestion made about using the word "all"...excellent suggestion....since you can't possibly ask all white people.

Also, the prior information evidence is crucial if you are attempting to "prove" the person is withholding information. It may be necessary to ask some of those court questions that start with "do you now or have you ever"...but who is gonna answer that? Let's move on...

HelixHair wrote:
(Your expected results need to be correlated to the specific experiment and not simply a restatement of the hypothesis.

Excellent observation! This will aid in refinement of the process.

HelixHair wrote:
You may wish to restate your hypothesis in such a way that it is quantifiable.

This is also ane excellent suggestion.

HelixHair wrote:
That is, state the number of people that will be asked. And, you may want to restate your hypothesis so that the answers given by the white persons are compared to information that some number of nonwhite people already know about a particular white person that is being assessed for racist behavior.

It may help to have discussions with white people that say they are racists (white supremacists) if you want to do the least amount of work...and of particular value are the less refined white supremacists (racists). keep in mind that because they are less refined in their practice of white supremacy (racism) you take a greater risk in communicating with them because they will tend to lean closer to the direct violence method of practicing white supremacy (racism).

HelixHair wrote:
I'd have had nothing but "co-signs" had this been posted in the "Following the Logic" forum. Given that a white person is someone who self-identifies as such, your analysis goes to the heart of the very important question of "What is a White Person?"

Very interesting. Since non-white people may never know exactly what a white person is (because a non-white person may never know why a white person that practices white supremacy/racism or all the ways they do it) there is a logical definition in the UICCSC that goes to function (page 20).
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:32 am† †Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a very interesting experiment that I have run and found it leads me to additional questions.

Can the information be accurate that I get from white people about which white person practices racism (white supremacy) since the white person I'm talking to may be a racist (white supremacist) and all racists (white supremacists) use deceit and direct violence to ensure I'm mistreated on the basis of color?

After I get information from white people about which white person practices racism (white supremacy) what do I do with it?

I have found that it saves me a lot of time and energy to suspect any white person that is able to practice racism (white supremacy) as a racist (white supremacist) until it is proven they are not one.

How does a white person prove, beyond a shadow of doubt, that he or she is not a racist (white supremacist) under the SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy)?

They can't...they'll have to get rid of the SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy) and replace it with a SYSTEM of justice first. I just ask the person if they are a white person and if the answer is "yes" from that point on they are suspected by me of being a racist (white supremacist) until we are in a SYSTEM of justice.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:37 am† †Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Edward Williams wrote:
HelixHair wrote:
You may wish to restate your hypothesis in such a way that it is quantifiable.

This is also an excellent suggestion.

HelixHair wrote:
That is, state the number of people that will be asked. And, you may want to restate your hypothesis so that the answers given by the white persons are compared to information that some number of nonwhite people already know about a particular white person that is being assessed for racist behavior.

It may help to have discussions with white people that say they are racists (white supremacists) if you want to do the least amount of work...and of particular value are the less refined white supremacists (racists). keep in mind that because they are less refined in their practice of white supremacy (racism) you take a greater risk in communicating with them because they will tend to lean closer to the direct violence method of practicing white supremacy (racism).

The objective of running a counter-racism science experiment should be to produce a SYSTEM of justice...NOT the experiment itself. Meaning what? The number of people you ask is simply the number of people you ask.

You can make the experiment quantifiable, so to speak, but non-white people should run counter-racism science experiments, and keep running them, until we are in a SYSTEM of justice. Once we are in a SYSTEM of justice you will not need counter-racism science experiments.

How do you quantify a counter-racism science experiment? Just ask one question...are we in a SYSTEM of justice? If the answer is NO...you keep running the experiment. It's simple. Keep running it and running it and running it forever OR until we are in a SYSTEM of justice. That's the only measurement that makes sense.

Once you begin to run counter-racism science experiments, and as you can tell a lot of them start off the same, you begin to run counter-racism science experiments inside of counter-racism science experiments...or restated, you begin to run counter-racism science experiments in parallel.

With running counter-racism science experiments repeatedly and becoming more and more comfortable with running counter-racism science experiments you develop a mode of thinking that allows you to attempt to practice counter-racism automatically. Or as they say...it becomes second nature to you...whatever that means.
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