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Fred on Sexual Arrangements
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HelixHair



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 383
Location: Everywhere that is nowhere

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:08 am    Post subject: Fred on Sexual Arrangements Reply with quote

I suspect that more truth than is usually revealed by a white person was revealed in this article. I'm interested in what y'all think:

http://www.fredoneverything.net/Dating.shtml
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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive heard of him before. There are a number of White people like him (Pat Buchannon-"Death of the West" David Duke who speaks of protecting his "heritage") who experiment with the language and constantly probe and create the boundaries of what is "acceptable" language to discuss racism White supremacy while in a system of racism White supremacy.

His closing arguement reflects a comment A White person once made to me I suspect accidentally. They told me:

"racism will end when White people and Black people produce so many children together that EVERYONE WILL BE

ALL MIXED UP"



I don't think they meant to tell me that racism will end when there are no more White people.

But thats basically what they told me.

Fred attempts to inocculate himself from this statement by previously discussing the color "caste system" among Blk people (light skin/dark skin...)

As if to say "well that won't work because Blk people practice racism against each other, bla bla bla"

He can say that but the reality is that White people ain't trusting niggers to run the system of racism White supremacy for them; and they have good reason not to.

Never send an inmate to do a guards job.

Josh
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

White men may not be sending black men to manage WS/R, but they ARE sending black men to manage their MONEY, as Vernon Jordan pointed out recently.

About sex and money: White men love to pursue money and females, yet there's a lessening of territoriality in BOTH areas.

It's VERY significant when black men are put in charge of "white men's money". The guy who's CEO of Fannie Mae is black; there are now more black men succeeding on Wall Street, on boards, which even if it's the white supremacists "allowing it" - it's still better than black men not succeeding in the financial world - while working for Justice. Money helps.

As far as sex - a lessening in territoriality also, I don't know why. Fred makes some truthful points, that males have a tendency to be territorial about "their" females. Less territorial about "their" males.

Fred mentions white women having been the forbidden fruit to black men - that is one reason I said what I did on that tape which V-God has posted, to my embarrassment in some ways but maybe I can use that embarrassment for good to talk about this.

I want to counter the illusion of white people being desirable as the "forbidden fruit" which is created by having a dynamic of power advantage sexually.

As misinterpreted as I'm sure I'll be, I was honest when I said what I said, but I did not mean I would go out and be unfaithful to my husband. I just mean that yes, black males are attractive, they are not "inferior" or men to be looked down on. There's nothing about white females or males that is more attractive, except that WS/R has created that illusion.

It's a fine line as a white female I've realized, between saying things like that, and respecting what I learned that night from Fuller, that that is the worst thing for countering WS/R. To let black people know that yes, they are good and attractive and not inferior in the eyes of those of us who see and want justice, but yes we also understand what Fuller is saying.

cloudsong


Last edited by cloudsong on Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:04 pm; edited 15 times in total
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HighHouse



Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a good article. He made some good points.
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fred leaves out though, that white men have always been attracted to black women, too. He emphasizes the black males-white females attraction, and doesn't acknowledge the other.

I want to acknowledge all the attraction because when it's acknowledged, the white mystique loses it's power.

Back in times of more overt racism, white people never came out and said they were attracted to black people, but there was certainly covert attraction. That fueled the myth of greater white beauty.

Now, if we all say, "yes of course we are attracted to black persons" it's taking away that pretense of whites being the enticing fruit, and suddenly the emperor has not clothes.

Whites AREN't more attractive, they're just a pear or a grapefruit, an ordinary fruit like everybody else.

Acknowledging everyone's attractiveness doesn't mean acting on it, as Fuller says. But I do think it should be acknowledged, forthrightly, by white people.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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Joined: 12 Apr 2003
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Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Fred leaves out though, that white men have always been attracted to black women, too. He emphasizes the black males-white females attraction, and doesn't acknowledge the other.

I want to acknowledge all the attraction because when it's acknowledged, the white mystique loses it's power.

Back in times of more overt racism, white people never came out and said they were attracted to black people, but there was certainly covert attraction. That fueled the myth of greater white beauty.

Now, if we all say, "yes of course we are attracted to black persons" it's taking away that pretense of whites being the enticing fruit, and suddenly the emperor has not clothes.

Whites AREN't more attractive, they're just a pear or a grapefruit, an ordinary fruit like everybody else.

Acknowledging everyone's attractiveness doesn't mean acting on it, as Fuller says. But I do think it should be acknowledged, forthrightly, by white people.

cloudsong

Thank you for that post cloudsong.
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome!

Is it helpful?

Am I revealing truth that isn't known? I can use feedback to help me be of any value here.

cloudsong
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HighHouse



Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experience, the white males I know don't find black females attractive. I for one don't find them that attractive. I know I'm generalizing but it seems that alot of black women are really big and heavy.
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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Highhouse wrote:

Quote:
I know I'm generalizing but it seems that alot of black women are really big and heavy.


I think you may have made a true statement Highhouse.

When I go out early in the morning on weekdays I see White female running all over the place.

They just run and run and run; and God forbid its a weekend morning...then you really see them running. Those White females too old to run anymore are often walking.

Now,

Does racism White supremacy have an impact on the relative health of people?

I think it does.

In a system of racism White supremacy White people often live in safer areas compared to Blk people. Areas that are safe enough for a female to jog, bike, run...

Pick a supermarket chain and visit the branch in a "White area" and then go to the one in the "Black area" and compare the quality and choice of products.

The food stores for White people have:

1. 5 or 6 different brands of dairy free "milk" products.

2. An abundance of low sodium products of all kinds.

3. Even the magazines at the check out tend to be of more constructive value

Meanwhile I once ask a clerk at the "Black version" of this same supermarket chain where I could find hummos; and not only did they not carry it, but he didn't even know what it was.

Food products in "Blk stores" tend to be

saltier

starchier

and generally of less nutritional value.

A poor diet combined with the lack of a compensatory counter racism progam often results in a Blk person becoming

"Big and Heavy".

but never as BIG AND HEAVY AS THE SYSTEM OF RACISM WHITE SUPREMACY.

My point is,

in a system of racism White supremacy, White people have access to healthier products of all kinds.

So yes Highhouse, you may be correct in your assesment that "alot of black women are really big and heavy".

Josh
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HighHouse



Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thankyou for your reply, Josh.

I did not know black supermarkets sold unhealthier items, but it does make sense now.

The people who run these supermarkets in black neighborhoods or slums have the choice of what they stock. Quantity matches demand. It's the age old which came first: the chicken or the egg. Do blacks buy those products because they're there? or are those products there because blacks buy them?

Either way, blacks choices of foods is related back to slavery days, where they had to make do with what was given them. Usually that meant unhealthy items. It makes sense they may feel they still should be using them.
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Trina



Joined: 25 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HighHouse wrote:
Quote:

Either way, blacks choices of foods is related back to slavery days, where they had to make do with what was given them. Usually that meant unhealthy items. It makes sense they may feel they still should be using them.



HighHouse,

As you know most people who exist in the United States are what is termed by medical profession as being obese. This is caused by the fact that most people, nonwhite and white are encouraged to purchase highly processed food that lacks the nutrients that the body needs. On the other hand, White people are highly encouraged to exercise, Bally's , Gold's Gym chains. Everytime I watch TV I see White females and males trying to pitch some sort of exercise equipment. I see White females with very revealing "workout clothing" on working those buns,abs and thighs. I AIN't never seen these ad's featuring big and heavy Black women getting a total body workout. I never see Black females who look like the Black females on BET videos helping to sell workout equipment to a Black female audience. Why is that HighHouse? There are also more health food stores in White communities than Black neighborhoods. Many grocery chains make the decision to stock certain foods on the shelves way before the doors open. Healthier foods could be stocked in stores in Black neighborhoods but a decision not to stock them is made by some people. I wonder who those people could be, HighHouse? Would you know?


Trina



P.S.

As you may know or read back in slavery days Black females were getting
raped left and right by the White slavemaster and sometimes with the help with the slavemistress. So, I guess the slavemasters were highly "attracted" to those big and heavy very black female slaves.

The other day at the store I saw a short, heavy Black female with a tall White male and she looked like she had 'stars' in her eyes or maybe she was just confused and didn't know why?


Trina
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Highhouse, you are in Minnesota and I don't know whether the situation applies as much but in D.C. there IS a lack of healthy items and variety of fresh produce in grocery stores in neighborhoods perceived to be high risk areas with low spending potential, from what I've read and experienced. Also in restaurants.

One can go overboard on the "health food" stuff but I'll never forget when I first got into health food and vitamins in college, and my roommate and I would go to this health food restaurant every night and eat brown rice, vegetables, etc.

Occasionally if we were running out of money we'd go to McDonald's and we'd really notice the difference in the look of the people there, it was striking.

The fresh nutrients and enzymes in live foods versus dead foods make a difference, and yet we expect kids who grow up on McDonald's to feel good.

You're probably aware of this phenomenon how today, certain portions of the black community both wealthy and low income are really embracing health food, and are even more aware of diet -

- with a certain portion of the black community totally embracing health foods and environmental concerns, as a reaction to the "niggerization" of eating in past decades, and getting out at the forefront of the whole environmental/health thing, Dick Gregory's activism on this for example, and many within the black community.

But then there's another part of the black community which isn't there yet, a poor and less educated demographic.

And among white people, it's ironically often the rural communities which are eating less fresh fruits and vegetables, in the south particularly.

There are a million articles on the internet about that grocery store phenomenon. Here's just a part of one:

Supermarket blackout.(lack of quality grocery stores in black communities)

The lack of major food retailers is devastating African American communities.

It's time to use your dollars to fill the gap.

LIKE SOME AFRICAN AMERICANS, ZELDA OWENS turned to buses, subways, taxis or car pooling to get to a quality supermarket in New York City. "The Associateds or C-Town Supermarkets in this area don't offer variety. So, I often shopped at D'Agostino's in downtown Manhattan to get the products I wanted," admits the 32-year-old Harlem native. According to Owens, the lack of quality grocery stores introduces a much bigger issue: Harlem residents lack healthy food choices as well other basic services, such as print shops, dry cleaners, newspaper stands, florists and banks with ATMs. "It seems like corporations feel that it's not glamorous or sexy to have a business in a predominantly black neighborhood. I wanted to change that," says Owens. So, she called her associates at the New York State Black Republican Council to announce her plans to run for the state Senate. Although she didn't win, she got over 1,800 votes. "And that was with no picture, name recognition or television commercials," she states.

Pressure from residents like Owens and others was responsible for a new Pathmark supermarket being built on the east side of Harlem between Lexington and Third avenues. While the supermarket took more than 10 years to complete due to political conflicts, financing issues and some local opposition, the superstore has a good selection of products and fair prices. But Owens thinks there is room for more chains, since the store only has one location in the Harlem area. "In this neighborhood, you don't have access to the variety you get in Midtown and other residential areas," she insists. "We also deserve options."

Generally, major supermarket chains steer clear of African American communities because they underestimate the community's potential spending power and overestimate the risks. This deficiency in black neighborhoods results in fewer employment opportunities, fewer competitively priced product choices and little access to philanthropic contributions. And the problem isn't just restricted to poor inner-city communities. Even some African Americans in the more affluent neighborhoods have to take a hike when it's time to go food shopping. But you can secure more quality grocers with better products and services in your neighborhood by taking an active stance. Here's how you can fill the gap.

FERRETING OUT THE FALLACIES

The majority of supermarkets are located in suburban areas that are still predominantly white. Urban Supermarkets, a report issued by the Food Marketing Institute (FMI), cites numerous reasons why the majority of the major chains refuse to put facilities in African American communities. One claim is that developers have difficulty acquiring land in urban areas. Another is that development costs, such as building demolition, ground leveling and cleanup, can be higher in urban areas than in suburban locations.

"The land issue is somewhat realistic," admits Jonathan "Johnny" Johnson, president and CEO of Community Pride Food Stores (No. 55 on the BE INDUSTRIAL/SERVICE 100 list) in Richmond, Virginia. But he also says the major supermarket chains need to be a little more creative when they look at urban areas. "You can't expect to have a suburban store in an urban area," he insists. "Instead of having a long, flat store, for example, some of the larger chains should consider having a store with two or three floors and an elevator."

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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a p.s. on the subject of white men's attraction to black females - obviously, we can just SEE the evidence, whites and blacks have mated else African Americans would look African still -- in this country that makes it obvious as Trina said, that black women have been attractive to white men.

I agree with her, and now there's a growing phenomenon of a certain demographic of white men being openly attracted to black women but yes, it's usually the thinner yet voluptuous black women. And they are attracted more than physically, of course. Every male is different in what he is attracted to, of course.

Unfortunately it was a hidden thing during slavery - you go to Mount Vernon into the women's slave quarters and you almost throw up because you picture George Washington going in there to take any woman he wanted. Women not having a choice in sex, let alone in anything else in life, dehumanized and soul-destroyed except somehow their souls weren't destroyed; and yet this was the father of our country. It's more of a sex scandal than Bill Clinton.

In Black Like Me, the author says that when talking to white men as a "black man" with dyed skin, he was totally unprepared for how often white men would nudge him and say, "So, you had any white women lately?" and then recount to him the black women they'd had sex with.

Today the atmosphere is very different. Black people are the ones saying to white people, as Fuller said to me, "No we don't want you to get together with us sexually, under a system of WS/R." White people who thought that getting together romantically with black people was anti-racist, now realize it's racist too. It's confusing for a lot of white people. cloudsong


Last edited by cloudsong on Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:31 am; edited 3 times in total
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HelixHair



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HighHouse wrote:
From my experience, the white males I know don't find black females attractive. I for one don't find them that attractive. I know I'm generalizing but it seems that alot of black women are really big and heavy.


From my experience, the people I know don't find grapes that tasty. I, for one, don't find them tasty. I know I'm generalizing, but it seems that a lot of grapes are really hard and sour.
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helixhair,

I agree about sour grapes. I do feel your theories about black people being the sexual preference worldwide, white peoples' preference included, are correct.

But I'm wondering when an individual man says he is not attracted to black women, how much can simply be individual taste? Can't Highhouse be telling the truth on an individual level?

Also, they may be responding to the health and weight conditions in a certain percentage of black women, conditions that have resulted from WS/R, though white women certainly show those too.

"Niggerization" economically, food-wise, greater environmental toxic exposures, etc., has worked to the detriment of black peoples' attractiveness on many levels.

So I'm just trying to think through how much is sour grapes, how much is niggerization effects on black womens' attractiveness, how much is economics -- many white men do tend to see attractiveness through an economic lens in many ways --

I think the effects of niggerization in this country on black people are why some white people find some African people more attractive than some African American people - I hope I can say this because often it gets me a touchy reaction in conversations with both white and black people but it goes to the heart of how African people brought to this country have been treated and affected...

African people have not had some of the same effects of WS/R that African American people have had (they've of course had effects of WS in Africa, but some qualitatively different ones), and that is a factor in attractiveness also.

If an African woman has retained a look of health through eating natural foods, breathing fresh air, and has retained more of a sense of self-worth not living in the U.S. which more than in many African countries unrelentingly has made black people feel inferior, white people feel superior...

African Americans are reclaiming those factors of attractiveness, and now Africans are increaingly losing them through some side effects of increasing westernization and development in African countries.

And it works the other way in other peoples' eyes, they see a Janet Jackson overall look as more attractive than a Sudanese Dinka woman or see the beauty and often brilliance of a new people, African Americans, that has come out of a terrible evil, slavery, and a people of greatness produced through injustice, now in a fight for justice before injustice ultimately destroys attractiveness and everything. I'm not sure which way the fight is going, but I think forward.

I'm just questioning how much WS/R can destroy/has destroyed a deep attractiveness of black women.

I also see the effects of white supremacy destroying the attractiveness of white women too - I know that sounds seemingly contradictory, but the toxicity that WS/R produces, gets into all our lives, bodies and souls.

cloudsong
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