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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
I was told by the person I've learned a lot of this from, Fuller, that even John Brown remains in his (Fuller's) mind a racist suspect by following the logic.

I want to make categories so if I name someone like John Brown, I have a way of distinguishing him from someone like David Duke.

Are they in the same category to you?

cloudsong

This is the reason you should take your categories of white people to discussions with white people...you are confusing non-white people and that is characteristic of a racist (white supremacist) under this SYSTEM.

I use the following categories that are only the result of white supremacy (racism):

White People
Non-White People
White Supremacists (Racists)

This eliminates the confusion for me since I have no mechanism for determining which white person is a white supremacists (racists) and you, cloudsong, haven't given me one.

I know if I can follow this most simplistic logic, as ignorant as I am, other non-white people shouldn't have a problem with it. I you are going to attempt to practice counter-racism, cloudsong, you have to accept and use counter-racist language. Any other acceptance and use of any other language by a white person, in the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) results in the maintenance, expansion, and/or refinement of the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism).

cloudsong, do you understand what I have written in this post?
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
In order for white people to aid in replacing the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) with a SYSTEM of justice they will have to accept and use counter-racist language all the time. That is the first step.]


Yes, yes. Another piece for my code book. You seem to be in a zone, V_god.
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I understand what you have written, V-God.

cloudsong
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Your logic then makes it meaningless for me to name white supremacists -- because again, it comes down to naming every white person.

cloudsong


Cloudsong, first, I appreciate the economy of words in your two most recent posts.

Now, I want to be clear on what you are saying. Are you saying that every white person is a Racist (White Supremacist)?
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that's what I"m saying if there are no categories to distinguish a John Brown from a David Duke.

cloudsong
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Yes that's what I"m saying if there are no categories to distinguish a John Brown from a David Duke.

cloudsong


So, are 6-month old babies, who are classified as white, Racists (White Supremacists)?
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helixhair, sorry I didn't ask this sooner but let's backtrack to get complete agreement on definitions here.

How are you defining the term of a White supremacist/racist?

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Yes that's what I"m saying if there are no categories to distinguish a John Brown from a David Duke.

cloudsong

Yes...HelixHair...see this is nothing new. By cloudsong saying every white person is a white supremacist (racist), cloudsong eliminates any obligation she has to naming white supremacists (racists). It's a trick. Not to say that cloudsong is trying to trick anybody but this is how the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) controls the behavior of white people.

Now don't misunderstand what I'm saying HelixHair, I'm not saying cloudsong is not aware she may be practicing white supremacy (racism)...what I'm saying is a white person has to try extremely hard not to practice white supremacy (racism) under the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) and it is my observation that cloudsong is not trying extremely hard at stopping the practice of white supremacy (racism).

The reason I say cloudsong is not trying extremely hard at stopping the practice of white supremacy (racism) is I've had this conversation with cloudsong and she contends it is not logical for her to name the white people she thinks are practicing white supremacy (racism) because according to THE LOGIC all white people are white supremacists (racists). I asked her if that includes her and she answered "yes". Now in the same breath, almost, she refused to name HighHouse as a white supremacist (racist). All of this is in this same thread. Stay with me now...

...I fast-forwarded the conversation by then asking for the criteria of a white supremacist (racist) and how it is different from a white person. Then comes the categories of people "going along with white supremacy", as cloudsong put it. See? Still no criteria. Then more categories to further split the difference of what is a white person and what is a white supremacist (racist).

Now you're having the same conversation and still no criteria of what a white supremacist (racist) says and what a white supremacist (racist) does. I suspect cloudsong may be correct...all white people are white supremacists (racists) but to me that is not logical. Newborn babies that have been classified as white by white supremacists (racists) cannot practice white supremacy (racism) if white supremacy (racism) is behavior. I have taken the position that racism (white supremacy) is behavior. Because if racism (white supremacy) is not behavior no one is being mistreated on the basis of color because you need behavior (saying and/or doing) in order to do that.

I suspect that if you follow the criteria path eventually cloudsong will tell you that everything a white person says and everything a white person does is racism (white supremacy)...if she doesn't eventually do that the statement that she made about all white people being white supremacists (racists) cannot be logical.

This puts cloudsong in a precarious situation...and still no criteria so that non-white people can differentiate between a white person and a white supremacists (racists). This is how you can tell counter-racist code is pure.

All white people that are able to practice white supremacy (racism) should be expected of as practicing white supremacy (racism) by non-white people. You don't have to do a lot of head scratching about it. The reason non-white people shouldn't say all white people are white supremacists (racists) is...first of all it is not logical...and second of all non-white people can't prove it without the aid of white people. Now if all white people are white supremacists (racists) why would a white supremacist (racists) tell you how they do what they do?

This is the reason I focus more on producing a SYSTEM that guarantees no person is mistreated and also guarantees the person that needs help the most get the most help (justice)...because that is what I'm supposed to be doing anyway...whether I'm in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism), like I am currently, or, whether I'm in a SYSTEM of justice. Every white person that is against justice will show you they are against by their behavior.

Be advised...just when you think you are getting help from a white person you may not be. Follow THE LOGIC and you will know what help you should receive.

Ask for what should be given, accept what is granted, compensate for the difference.
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

V-God, I have told you people who to my mind are white supremacists, and people who to my mind are not or are questinable.

I told you that Ashcroft is a white supremacist.

I told you that Highhouse is not or is questionable, I'm still not sure about him but I don't think he is, I think he is searching for answers.

Will you again give me your exact definition of a white supremacist/racist?

It may not be Fuller's definition, and Fuller defines by what's in someone's heart, not by behavior -- that's why he classifies John Brown as a suspect, he told me at a lecture at Bey's.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
V-God, I have told you people who to my mind are white supremacists, and people who to my mind are not or are questinable.

I told you that Ashcroft is a white supremacist.

I told you that Highhouse is not or is questionable, I'm still not sure about him but I don't think he is, I think he is searching for answers.

Will you again give me your exact definition of a white supremacist/racist?

It may not be Fuller's definition, and Fuller defines by what's in someone's heart, not by behavior -- that's why he classifies John Brown as a suspect, he told me at a lecture at Bey's.

cloudsong

cloudsong,

We have been through this before. The logical definition of a white supremacist (racist) is in the Counter-Racist Definitionary, which is the same definition in the codebook that Fuller wrote. There are only so many moves on a checker board.

[Non-White People: This is how non-white people unify...the only way non-white people can unify under the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism). Non-white people cannot organize inside of an organization (racism/white supremacy) where there are people (white people) that are organized against them. Non-white people have to come together around a code.

When white people attempt to drive a wedge between non-white people by attempting to give exampes of the difference in what non-white people say and/or do, non-white people need only to reveal truth and use truth to promote justice and correctness in all places and at all times by using counter-racist logic, counter-racist language, and counter-racist science...known as...

...Counter-Racist Codification.]
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just looked up the definition of white supremacist in the definitionary and it is a white person who practices racial subjugation in any of the areas of people activity.

V-God, you're going to think I'm making this up but two things: one), I am really confused about some of these concepts such as suspect versus white supremacist, and Fuller saying John Brown remains a suspect in his mind (that seems ludicrous to me) etc.

Also, I do have memory problems from our toxic exposures and other neurological effects so I'm not always with it as to what I've said or not said.

Having said that -- I want to clarify this issue.

Can you define "subjugation" more exactly?

Is a white person who doesn't do anything against black people, but who doens't actively work to change the existing white supremacist institutional bias in the world -- is that person practicing subjugation?

If so, then I do feel that every white person except those actively working against white supremacy are white supremacists - and there are very few white people doing that, partly because the economy's so bad most middle class white people are barely having time to work sleep eat and get the kids to school. They can't even think about changing the world or institiutions because they're caught up in this economic terrorism which I wonder if Bush WANTS us to be caught up in.

It's going to take a major shift in priorities in peoples' working lives.

cloudsong
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HighHouse



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cloudsong just give up.

There's nothing you can do to please V_God or try to convince him you're a good person searching for equality.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HighHouse wrote:
cloudsong just give up.

There's nothing you can do to please V_God or try to convince him you're a good person searching for equality.

HighHouse, there is nothing cloudsong can do to convince me she is not a white supremacist (racist) and she shouldn't be trying to convince me of that anyway. All people should be, according to THE LOGIC, working to produce a SYSTEM that guarantees no person is mistreated and also guarantees the person that needs help the most get the most help (justice).

Any person attempting to convince me they are producing justice, under the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism), are wasting their time.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
I just looked up the definition of white supremacist in the definitionary and it is a white person who practices racial subjugation in any of the areas of people activity.

In case you missed the counter-racist definition of a racist here it is:

Counter-Racist Definitionary wrote:
Racist: Pronunciation Key

(1) A white person who, directly or indirectly, speaks and/or acts, in a manner that helps to establish, maintain, expand, and/or refine the practice of White Supremacy (Racism), at any time, in any place, in any one or more areas of people activity, including Economics, Education, Entertainment, Labor, Law, Politics, Religion Sex, and/or War.

(2) A White Supremacist.

(3) A person [white] who practices White Supremacy (Racism).

(4) Any white person, who is mentally or physically able to speak, and/or act, to eliminate White Supremacy, but who does not do so.

UICCSC


I'm sure you've read it before when we had this conversation...and yet I still don't have the criteria of a racist (white supremacist) even though you said you can practice racism (white supremacy) anytime you get ready.

cloudsong wrote:
V-God, you're going to think I'm making this up but two things: one), I am really confused about some of these concepts such as suspect versus white supremacist, and Fuller saying John Brown remains a suspect in his mind (that seems ludicrous to me) etc.

Fuller was speaking for himself. He said what he said.

cloudsong wrote:
Also, I do have memory problems from our toxic exposures and other neurological effects so I'm not always with it as to what I've said or not said.

Having said that -- I want to clarify this issue.

Can you define "subjugation" more exactly?

Is a white person who doesn't do anything against black people, but who doens't actively work to change the existing white supremacist institutional bias in the world -- is that person practicing subjugation?

Yes.

cloudsong wrote:
If so, then I do feel that every white person except those actively working against white supremacy are white supremacists - and there are very few white people doing that, partly because the economy's so bad most middle class white people are barely having time to work sleep eat and get the kids to school. They can't even think about changing the world or institiutions because they're caught up in this economic terrorism which I wonder if Bush WANTS us to be caught up in.

It's going to take a major shift in priorities in peoples' working lives.

cloudsong

I already know...you said that includes you as well. Stop trying to convince me that you are not a white supremacist (racist) and replace white supremacy (racism) with justice.

Follow THE LOGIC.

[Non-White People: Understand that most of the time when you get a chance to talk to a white person about the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) and you show that you have focus by laying out the three categories of people that are the result of the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism), which are...

White People
Non-White People
White Supremacist (Racist)

...white people will spend most of their time trying to convince you they are not a white supremacist (racist). According to THE LOGIC the only way a white person can prove they are not a white supremacist (racist) is when there is no SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism). That is the criteria and there is no other. And you can tell white people this but they still attempt to make that move on the checkerboard.

The only reason a white person wants to talk to a non-white person about racism (white supremacy) is to convince the non-white person they are not a white supremacist (racist) and/or to practice white supremacy (racism).]
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HighHouse



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So V_God, you agree with me?
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