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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:58 am    Post subject: Names Reply with quote

I will name names of people I have seen hurt black people in the workplace.

The workplace is one of the most serious places WS/R is practiced.

I will name a boss I had who was a white supremacist/racist in at least one action I observed - he would not let my black boyfriend at the time come in the office, even though he let the white 'significant others' of other employees come in.

His name is Kenneth Laurent, at USDA. I don't know if he's even still alive - that was in 1979-1980, and he was maybe 55 at the time.

I respected him in so many ways - until that incident.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting. Perhaps he was turned off by our too public displays of affection. I am willing to name him though.

It's very hard to name him in a global way -- he may NOT have been a white supremacist/racist except in that one action. But I am willing to name any one who does any ACTION that HURTS BLACK PEOPLE. I know I have to do that, even though with him it's very very difficult - he was like a father/mentor to me.

And my boss at Gifford's Ice Cream parlor when I was eighteen, who didn't hire black people, blatantly - except I don't remember his name. But I feel the Gifford's company, if they're even still in business, held some liability also. At the time I didn't know what to do, which I regret.

I don't mind naming names of white people whom I have seen hurt black people. I will do that in a second.

I just felt doubts about Highhouse. Highhouse might even label him SELF a white supremacist/racist, and I still woudn't be sure. I need to ask him questions, get better answers... Highhouse, are you willing to answer my questions?

cloudsong


Last edited by cloudsong on Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:23 am; edited 2 times in total
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not work now, and I don't even go out that much, so I do not have the opportunity to give more current examples.

I will ask white friends what they see, and I am more than willing to report them here.

Sometimes I think it's more important to name someone for "going along with white supremacy" than for "being a white supremacist".

I don't know what's in someone's soul. But they have to be held responsible for their actions.

Any action that hurts black people should be prosecuted. I would go so far as to say that the white anchors of our mainstream media should all be fired and worse -- they have blatantly let George Bush advance a white supremacy agenda in the WORLD without serious questions. It's shameful.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Sometimes I think it's more important to name someone for "going along with white supremacy" than for "being a white supremacist".

Now that's interesting! We all go along with white supremacy (racism). I don't think you can name everybody in the entire universe.
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But V-God, either way you're naming everybody in the entire universe. We're all conditioned by this system.

I am saying that it's easier for me to see what someone DOES -- like Tom Brokaw, being an absolulte patsy for the status quo, not standing up to blatant white supremacist actions and questioning them.

I would name him in a minute as a white supremacist. But Highhouse was at least questioning, there was something that rang sincere to me in his tone, maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe I'm making a meaningless distinction. I'm just saying it's easier to see someone going along with white supremacy, which is an action, that see someone BEING a whit supremacist. What does "BEING" mean? I can't see a soul, I CAN see an action.

I don't know if I'm contradicting myself or not. Let me think more. I am trying to express something.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
But V-God, either way you're naming everybody in the entire universe. We're all conditioned by this system.

I am saying that it's easier for me to see what someone DOES -- like Tom Brokaw, being an absolulte patsy for the status quo, not standing up to blatant white supremacist actions and questioning them.

Are "blatant white supremacist actions" actions by white supremacists (racists) that non-white people can identify as white supremacist (racist) actions? Please answer "yes" or "no".

cloudsong wrote:
I would name him in a minute as a white supremacist. But Highhouse was at least questioning, there was something that rang sincere to me in his tone, maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe I'm making a meaningless distinction. I'm just saying it's easier to see someone going along with white supremacy, which is an action, that see someone BEING a whit supremacist. What does "BEING" mean? I can't see a soul, I CAN see an action.

When I say "being a white supremacist (racist) I mean saying and/or doing.

cloudsong wrote:
I don't know if I'm contradicting myself or not. Let me think more. I am trying to express something.

You have already stated that "yes" HighHouse is a white supremacist (racist) and HighHouse has stated that he, by his own admission, is a racist (white supremacist).

So why are you continuing this conversation? Please stop this conversation right now or I'll hafta suspect you are attemtping to confuse me. I only have one question for you that is posted above:

Are "blatant white supremacist actions" actions by white supremacists (racists) that non-white people can identify as white supremacist (racist) actions? Please answer "yes" or "no".
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. And they are actions that we all can see blatantly.

By the way, I don't remember calling Highhouse a white supremacist/racist. And I don't know if he knows what he is. That is my perception.

cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please forgive me for continuing a topic which you requested I not continue.

I was concerned about being misquoted. If you can show me the quote where I said he was racist, I would be interested. I don't remember saying that definitively.

Or we can just leave it. I don't mean to keep on with something that was very upsetting to me; I will name names, but I'm not ready to name his. If I've named him already, please show me -- or just leave it.

cloudsong
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HelixHair



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Sometimes I think it's more important to name someone for "going along with white supremacy" than for "being a white supremacist"....

I don't know what's in someone's soul. But they have to be held responsible for their actions.

Any action that hurts black people should be prosecuted. cloudsong


Cloudsong, I think this may be a MAJOR advancement in counter-racist methodology. What can you do to make this an operative and enforceable policy? Also, what would be the criteria for determining what hurts non-white people?
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Dan Freeman



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Sometimes I think it's more important to name someone for "going along with white supremacy" than for "being a white supremacist"....

I don't know what's in someone's soul. But they have to be held responsible for their actions.

Any action that hurts black people should be prosecuted. cloudsong


Cloudsong, there is already a title for a white person who choses "going along with white supremacy":

That would be a racist/white supremacist.

Are you attempting to devise another classifacation for white people who "choose to go along with white supremacy"?

smallz
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HelixHair



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

smallz wrote:
cloudsong wrote:
Sometimes I think it's more important to name someone for "going along with white supremacy" than for "being a white supremacist"....

I don't know what's in someone's soul. But they have to be held responsible for their actions.

Any action that hurts black people should be prosecuted. cloudsong


Cloudsong, there is already a title for a white person who choses "going along with white supremacy":

That would be a racist/white supremacist.

Are you attempting to devise another classifacation for white people who "choose to go along with white supremacy"?

smallz


smallz, given that definition, what criteri(a)(on) differentiates a white person from a white supremacist?
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Non-White People: Everybody on this planet either practices white supremacy (racism), goes along with white supremacy (racism), or are victims of white supremacy (racism). the only victims of white supremacy (racism) are non-white people. What does this mean?

White people are either practicing white supremacy (racism) or they go along with white supremacy (racism). White people practicing white supremacy (racism) and going along with white supremacy (racism) is the same thing.

THE LOGIC is that if a white person is not practicing counter-racism they are practicing white supremacy (racism). There is no in-between.

No white person can prove they are practicing counter-racism under a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) and this is the practical value of white people under the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) being viewed as racist suspects by non-white people taking a logical approach to replacing white supremacy (racism) with justice.

I suspect the logical outcome for cloudsong making the following quote...

cloudsong wrote:
Sometimes I think it's more important to name someone for "going along with white supremacy" than for "being a white supremacist"....


...is to keep from naming people she observes with racist (white supremacist) behavior...because she can't name every white person who practices white supremacy (racism)...but she could name every white person she observes. Non-white people go along with white supremacy (racism). as well..but as victims of it.]
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Dan Freeman



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HelixHair wrote:
smallz wrote:
cloudsong wrote:
Sometimes I think it's more important to name someone for "going along with white supremacy" than for "being a white supremacist"....

I don't know what's in someone's soul. But they have to be held responsible for their actions.

Any action that hurts black people should be prosecuted. cloudsong


Cloudsong, there is already a title for a white person who choses "going along with white supremacy":

That would be a racist/white supremacist.

Are you attempting to devise another classifacation for white people who "choose to go along with white supremacy"?

smallz


smallz, given that definition, what criteri(a)(on) differentiates a white person from a white supremacist?


A white supremacist/racist is a white person who belives in and practices racsim/white supremacy.

A racist/white supremacist suspect is a white person who has the ability to practice racsim/white supremacy if he/she chooses to do so.

As a victim, I suspect a white person who has chooses to "go along with" a system of mistreatment based on COLOR that's already in place, I gotta suspect that white person to be a racist/whtie supremacist.

A racist suspect is a racist suspect.

An actuall racist/white supremist is a different ball game alltogether. No rason to suspect if racsim/white supremacy is being practiced.

smallz
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:14 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HelixHair wrote:
smallz wrote:
cloudsong wrote:
Sometimes I think it's more important to name someone for "going along with white supremacy" than for "being a white supremacist"....

I don't know what's in someone's soul. But they have to be held responsible for their actions.

Any action that hurts black people should be prosecuted. cloudsong


Cloudsong, there is already a title for a white person who choses "going along with white supremacy":

That would be a racist/white supremacist.

Are you attempting to devise another classifacation for white people who "choose to go along with white supremacy"?

smallz


smallz, given that definition, what criteri(a)(on) differentiates a white person from a white supremacist?

That's a good question HelixHair. Unfortunately, I have no mechanism for determining which white person practices white supremacy (racism) and white people have shown me that they will not tell me, in any large number, which white people practice white supremacy (racism).

I can observe some behavior and attempt to list criteria but I could be incorrect about that. In an effort to minimize my victimization of the white people that practice white supremacy (racism) it is safer for me to follow THE LOGIC and view every white person who I observe as having the ability to practice white supremacy (racism) as a racist suspect.

This way I don't have to do a lot of head-scratching trying to figure out which white person is or is not a white supremacist (racist). In order to know for sure if a white person is a white supremacist (racist) you gotta be a white person.
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Invalid session -- darn, I can't post a reply - what's going on/ I desperately want to reply -- testing...
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helixhair,

I am so glad you commented because I think this is a very important point of discussion, especially as a white person who wants to name names but does differentiate. But yes, it is confusing and I am confused, I am so confused! I wish you had a smarter white person here but this is what I think, but also I want to read your posts more thoroughly and then answer more.

But what I observe is a lot of white people who live their lives and if you analyzed a random white person's life from the bowl of corn flakes in the morning to hugging the teddy bear or the mate at night and saying the prayers and falling asleep, you could not state any definite thing they had done all day that was white supremacist/racist.

So should they be named? What you COULD state was how almost everything they accepted or did or even ate fell into the category of going along with white supremacy, not questioning the institutional white supremacy, not OBJECTING, not protesting.

Even corn flakes -- it brings up the whole issue of black farmers and the discrimination they have experienced.

The teddy bear - almost undoubtedly the pollution from its manufacture was dumped in a community of color.

Their job -- if they work for General Electric, for example, they are supporting the prison-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.

Should there be a differential in white people naming people in the one category -- the category of people who live their lives amidst the system of white supremacy and don't object to it, maybe aren't even consciously AWARE of it, who honestly think they are good non-racists --

-- versus a person who is deliberately and actively practicing racism, by things like not hiring black people, ordering the dumping of his company's waste in a black community -- etc., in other words, sabotaging black people directly and knowingly?

cloudsong


Last edited by cloudsong on Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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