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White Envy
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Highhouse what you see as "beating" I see as just expressing suspicion and an intelligent need to question, based on experience of racism and mistreatment by whites.

I sometimes forget that and get upset at being suspected, then I meditate on why, and realize it's a minor annoyance for me to pay to be suspected when black people in this country have paid an incalculable price. That's how I feel.

But - back to my experiment -- can anyone help me with the next step? What is meant by "upload" and where do I upload it to? Does anyone want to teach an old computer-illiterate idiot computer skills? My husband doesn't have the patience and my daughter despairs of my having any technical ability. I would pay $20/hour or whatever you think is fair. I would prefer a female with computer skills and lots of female undestanding and patience.

It would help me be not such an idiot here when it comes to understanding how to do anything like post the experiment in the proper form. Anyone need a few hours extra income? I'd like to learn to use Microsoft Word too.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HighHouse wrote:
Cloudsong you are basically a lapdog to any and all blacks in this country.

Yet they all continually beat you. Yet, you love it and keep wagging your tail.

That is a very interesting statement HighHouse. Resorting to name-calling again?

Do you understand those two statements cloudsong? White people feel uncomfortable with other white people that even talk about replacing white supremacy (racism) with justice...and you ain't even got started doing it yet.
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What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

V-God, to me justice isn't an eye for an eye, or exact equality. Right now I feel black people deserve more. There would be no justice in saying, 'okay we'll treat you equally now." What about making up for the whole history of white supremacy?

That's what I believe. I'm sorry if I don't always know as much as you want me to about the whole system of white supremacy. I have stated some things about it and how it can be replaced with justice but I feel like what I say doesn't register here as my giving helpful information. Perhaps each time I give information on replacing white supremacy with justice, or on how WS/R works, you could let me know if I have started talking about it helpfully. I feel excited about doing the experiment as it's a chance to start "doing it yet" so to speak. Thank you for that. I'll also start talking about others ways of doing it, and DOING them.

I want to give as much helpful information as possible and sometimes I don't know why our dynamic of cummunication doesn't seem to be accomplishing that.

May I start with one observation of how white supremacy can be replaced with justice, and you can give me feedback if it's helpful?

cloudsong


Last edited by cloudsong on Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:24 am; edited 2 times in total
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
V-God, to me justice isn't an eye for an eye, or exact equality. Right now I feel black people deserve more. There would be no justice in saying, 'okay we'll treat you equally now." What about making up for the whole history of white supremacy?

You make up for that by producing a SYSTEM of justice. Reparations are not needed under a SYSTEM of justice.

cloudsong wrote:
That's what I believe. I'm sorry if I don't always know as much as you want me to about the whole system of white supremacy. I have stated some things about it and how it can be replaced with justice but I feel like what I say doesn't register here as my giving helpful information. Perhaps each time I give information on replacing white supremacy with justice, or on how WS/R works, you could let me know if I have "started talking about it yet".

I don't know if you have started talking about it yet or not. I stated you "ain't even started doing it yet" because there is no way to measure progress of replacing white supremacy (racism) with justice in a SYSTEM of injustice.

That is like someone placing a drop of chocolate into a gallon of milk and then giving it to you and asking you to measure how much chocolate is in the gallon of milk. No way to measure it. there is no progress meter for justice as it is defined in the Counter-Racist Definitionary...either you have it or you don't. Now this flies in the face of a lot of things we have right now such as "diversity", or "affirmative action", etc., which people are alwys measuring the progress of. Either you have justice or you don't...period.

cloudsong wrote:
I want to give as much helpful information as possible and sometimes I don't know why our dynamic of cummunication doesn't seem to be accomplishing that.

May I start with one observation of how white supremacy can be replaced with justice, and you can give me feedback if it's helpful?

cloudsong

You completing this experiement will be helpful to me. Even though it results in a why answer and, not a how answer...why is important as well. Now be advised, once you complete the why experiment I'm gonna ask you for a how experiment.
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, I misread your post. I went back and edited mine to reflect your saying "not started doing it yet" versus what I thought I'd read, "not started talking about it yet." I've got to start reading more carefully.

cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be excited to do a "how" experiment as well.

Right now I need help on the first experiment, and I feel stupid asking but I don't know anything about computers - can you help talk me thru it, how do I upload it (I think that's what you said to do), where do I upload it to, etc.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
I'll be excited to do a "how" experiment as well.

Right now I need help on the first experiment, and I feel stupid asking but I don't know anything about computers - can you help talk me thru it, how do I upload it (I think that's what you said to do), where do I upload it to, etc.

cloudsong

You don't need to upload it. It is fine where it is. If anyone has questions for you regarding your experiment I'm sure they'll ask. If they don't ask you should get the results and make an analysis of your own. I suspect you already know why white peolple practice white supremacy (racism) though so I'm not sure what the practical value is for you doing the experiment...but I am still learning.
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm. Perhaps I do know, but I don't comprehend, if you see the difference.

I mean, how can anyone comprehend human cruelty, of any sort? I still think it comes out of feelings of insecurity, inadequacy -- and so people compete and aggress to try to be better, to hide feelings of shame and fears of being worse.

White people compete. They try to take over all the resources and control. It makes them feel they are better.

A lot of it is about power. A lot of it is about shame. But I don't know anything deeper than that. And a lot of us who are white don't share or comprehend those feelings. I wish someone who DOES feel those ways would talk to me. I need to find white supremacists to sit down with and really talk to - those are people I usually avoid. I have to face them.

Maybe a HOW experiment to begin with would be better... but I'll need to think of one. In the meantime, I could do this one just to see if it gathers us any helpful information. I don't know if it will or will just be a waste of time.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Hmmm. Perhaps I do know, but I don't comprehend, if you see the difference.

I mean, how can anyone comprehend human cruelty, of any sort? I still think it comes out of feelings of insecurity, inadequacy -- and so people compete and aggress to try to be better, to hide feelings of shame and fears of being worse.

White people compete. They try to take over all the resources and control. It makes them feel they are better.

A lot of it is about power. A lot of it is about shame. But I don't know anything deeper than that. And a lot of us who are white don't share or comprehend those feelings. I wish someone who DOES feel those ways would talk to me. I need to find white supremacists to sit down with and really talk to - those are people I usually avoid. I have to face them.

Maybe a HOW experiment to begin with would be better... but I'll need to think of one. In the meantime, I could do this one just to see if it gathers us any helpful information. I don't know if it will or will just be a waste of time.

cloudsong

OK...experiment please.
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok.

Would anyone be willing to help me? Would anyone be willing to be in the experiment?

I do have one black male friend who said he would do it -- but he is reluctant.

I have a white female friend who is willing to be the white female acting condesending etc., because I don't want to do that.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

[Non-White People: Now that's interesting! See where this is going? White people being condescending to non-white people to find out why white people mistreat people on the basis of color? How does that reveal truth about why white people practice white supremacy (racism)?]
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Ok.

Would anyone be willing to help me? Would anyone be willing to be in the experiment?

I do have one black male friend who said he would do it -- but he is reluctant.

I have a white female friend who is willing to be the white female acting condesending etc., because I don't want to do that.

cloudsong

cloudsong,

You've already stated that you could practice white supremacy (racism) if you so choose to and you haven't been taught by a white supremacist (racist) how to do it.

What would be the reason you practice white supremacy (racism) if you choose to?
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't even want to do it in acting, in my own experiment, so I wouldn't choose to.

There would be no reason to choose to - from my view of how I want the world to be, without white supremacy.

And I don't have the power to practice it in any wham bang way -- like Bush or Rumsfeld.

If I had to practice it I would practice it by going around being mean to people, and if had a job, not to hire black people. I will have to think of how I would/could practice it.

I would join the republican party, I would give money to efforts like the war in Iraq, I would lie to black people, I would promote anything that would hurt black people.

I would be George Bush, only he does it better.

cloudsong


Last edited by cloudsong on Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would define reality as white.

I would make laws that make it easy to put as many black men in jail for drugs as possible, while putting white men in treatment centers.

I would put lead in the drinking water of cities with black residents.

I would cut money for government college loans.

I would adopt an imperialist policy in the world while calling it "giving people democracy".

I would make huge amounts of money off of war and other countries' oil so that I could have leverage over people without money.

more later

cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would let all that - and more - happen and I'd NOT OBJECT OR PROTEST OR SPEAK OUT, while being nice to black people and saying that I am color blind and I for one don't do anything racist, saying "it's not me".

I'm learning to speak out and act out more.

cloudsong
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