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White Envy
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
I would let all that - and more - happen and I'd NOT OBJECT OR PROTEST OR SPEAK OUT, while being nice to black people and saying that I am color blind and I for one don't do anything racist, saying "it's not me".

I'm learning to speak out and act out more.

cloudsong

cloudsong, I suspect you do all of those things you mentioned in your last three posts since I have no mechanism for determining if you don't. You, cloudsong, are a racist suspect and there is no need for you to continue to try to convince me that you are not a white supremacist (racist). When racism (white supremacy) no longer exists you will not be a racist suspect. That is the criteria, now let's move on.

The questions in your experiment do not match your Hypothesis. Please revise your questions to match your Hypothesis, which is...

cloudsong wrote:
Hypothesis:
White people mistreat black people for this main reason:

Reason: Competition for power and resources; to do what it takes to maintain white supremacy and greater power, domination in the world, resources, and supremacy in the world.

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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

V-God, in answering your questions about how I would practice white supremacy if I wanted to practice it, I was NOT trying to convince you that I'm not a white supremacist/racist. Don't you realize by now that I am not so dense that I don't know that is NEVER going to happen? You will ALWAYS suspect me.

If your suspicion of me hasn't been accepted by me by now as your logical caution, I would not continue to post on your forum. Yes it bothers me a great deal psychologically, but then I center myself, meditate, and realize the logical reasons you are treating me this way, and I understand the logic.

So PLEASE, know that I am not trying to convince you about myself when I make statements in answer to your questions - I am trying to answer your questions truthfully. It would not have been truthful for me to state anything other than the truth about me, that I do not knowingly practice white supremacy. I EXPECT you to view that statement with suspcision because that is how you practice counter racism.

I know you won't ever see me as anything but a suspect, no matter how much work or effort I do here for you --- ain't gonna happen!!!! But I feel I owe black people any amount of work or effort, you can believe me or not. But I don't have a lot of energy because of my health; it was a major thing that I went to that Welsing lecture. I don't know when or if I will have to stop putting time into this - I may be going for a while to a clinic in Texas, but I will continue here until I do.

I don't understand what you mean when you say the questions don't match the hypothesis. I don't think the questions matter so much, as long as they get different answers in the two different circumstances.

My feeling is that under the circumstance where the white woman is being condescending to the black male, ANY questions about white supremacy and black people will be answered less harshly than under the circumstance where the female is holding hands and being ordered around by the black male.

I feel that the visceral reaction of the white questionairre-answerers will be to answer more positively about black people when they don't feel threatened by seeing a black male in power.

Are you saying that the questions should be more direct as to feelings about black people, not as much about white supremacy? What I'm trying to achieve is a set of questions that will be indicative of how positively or negatively people view black people.

Do you have any suggestions for questions? This isn't coming easily to me. Do you think direct questions such as "How do you feel about black people" are okay? I want short essay type questions rather than questions where people circle a number -- I think writing reveals more true thoughts.

Thank you for your help. Sorry if I get annoyed by your still thinking I care about your suspicsion - I've accepted it, which most white people wouldn't -- which might be a reason TO suspect them if they couldn't undestand your need for suspicion.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
V-God, in answering your questions about how I would practice white supremacy if I wanted to practice it, I was NOT trying to convince you that I'm not a white supremacist/racist. Don't you realize by now that I am not so dense that I don't know that is NEVER going to happen? You will ALWAYS suspect me.

If your suspicion of me hasn't been accepted by me by now as your logical caution, I would not continue to post on your forum. Yes it bothers me a great deal psychologically, but then I center myself, meditate, and realize the logical reasons you are treating me this way, and I understand the logic.

[Non-White People: Any way a non-white person "treats" a white person is a reaction to racism (white supremacy). Non-White people do not practice racism (white supremacy).]

cloudsong wrote:
So PLEASE, know that I am not trying to convince you about myself when I make statements in answer to your questions - I am trying to answer your questions truthfully. It would not have been truthful for me to state anything other than the truth about me, that I do not knowingly practice white supremacy. I EXPECT you to view that statement with suspcision because that is how you practice counter racism.

[Non-White People: Counter-Racism is Counter-Racism. There are only so many moves a racist (white supremacist) can make and there are specific counter moves a person makes when practicing counter-racism. No one person practices counter-racism in their own way. There is only one best way to make every counter-racist move. Don't let your personality get in the way of THE LOGIC.]

cloudsong wrote:
I know you won't ever see me as anything but a suspect, no matter how much work or effort I do here for you --- ain't gonna happen!!!! But I feel I owe black people any amount of work or effort, you can believe me or not. But I don't have a lot of energy because of my health; it was a major thing that I went to that Welsing lecture. I don't know when or if I will have to stop putting time into this - I may be going for a while to a clinic in Texas, but I will continue here until I do.

I don't understand what you mean when you say the questions don't match the hypothesis. I don't think the questions matter so much, as long as they get different answers in the two different circumstances.

My feeling is that under the circumstance where the white woman is being condescending to the black male, ANY questions about white supremacy and black people will be answered less harshly than under the circumstance where the female is holding hands and being ordered around by the black male.

I feel that the visceral reaction of the white questionairre-answerers will be to answer more positively about black people when they don't feel threatened by seeing a black male in power.

Are you saying that the questions should be more direct as to feelings about black people, not as much about white supremacy?

No.

cloudsong wrote:
What I'm trying to achieve is a set of questions that will be indicative of how positively or negatively people view black people.

Do you have any suggestions for questions? This isn't coming easily to me. Do you think direct questions such as "How do you feel about black people" are okay? I want short essay type questions rather than questions where people circle a number -- I think writing reveals more true thoughts.

Thank you for your help. Sorry if I get annoyed by your still thinking I care about your suspicsion - I've accepted it, which most white people wouldn't -- which might be a reason TO suspect them if they couldn't undestand your need for suspicion.

cloudsong

I approach all white people with caution...not just you. Run the experiement and we will see if the results of the questions you've listed will reveal why white people feel the need to mistreat people on the basis of color. Here we are on page 8 and the experiment hasn't even been run yet.
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not call you a racist. Of COURSE non-white people cannot be racists. I totally agree with that statement. Just like people with disabilities cannot discriminate against able-bodies people. Being disabled myself, I see so many similarities in the rights we are fighting for as people with disabilities and the justice that non-white people are fighting for.

When we are told that it is discrimination that we want wheelchair ramps etc., that is ludicrous.

I would ask you to please reread my post and find ANYWHERE I called you a racist -- that is not something I would ever think.

Now -- about the experiment -- I thought I was supposed to wait to run it until we had discussed it and worked out all the kinks that you or anyone else saw. Am I incorrect in that assumption?

Also I thought you implied in your note to non-white people that I should not use the condesending scanario -- am I incorrect in that assumption?

Am I allowed to read the notes to non-white people? I will promise not to if I am not supposed to, although I also promised not to read my daughter's diary but did peek...

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
I did not call you a racist. Of COURSE non-white people cannot be racists. I totally agree with that statement. Just like people with disabilities cannot discriminate against able-bodies people. Being disabled myself, I see so many similarities in the rights we are fighting for as people with disabilities and the justice that non-white people are fighting for.

When we are told that it is discrimination that we want wheelchair ramps etc., that is ludicrous.

I would ask you to please reread my post and find ANYWHERE I called you a racist -- that is not something I would ever think.

Now -- about the experiment -- I thought I was supposed to wait to run it until we had discussed it and worked out all the kinks that you or anyone else saw. Am I incorrect in that assumption?

Yep. Experiment please.

cloudsong wrote:
Also I thought you implied in your note to non-white people that I should not use the condesending scanario -- am I incorrect in that assumption?

Nope. Experiment please.

cloudsong wrote:
Am I allowed to read the notes to non-white people?

Yep. Experiment please.

cloudsong wrote:
I will promise not to if I am not supposed to, although I also promised not to read my daughter's diary but did peek...

cloudsong

Experiment please.
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am confused. Can you explain why I should not use the condscending scenario?

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
I am confused. Can you explain why I should not use the condscending scenario?

cloudsong

I suspect some people need to learn by doing. You'll have to do the experiment and make an analysis of the results of the questions you have in relation to your Hypothesis.

Please perform your experiment. I can't wait to see what the results are.
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will take quite a while to set this up.

For one thing I need a black male - any volunteers? My black male friend does not want to do it, and besides his demeanor is too nice and smiling, he wouldn't have the effect I want of bringing out people's fears of black male power.

Any volunteers?

Also, I have several other obligations. What is your desired time frame as to when the experiment should be done?

I will promise it by the end of May but I can't promise it sooner. Is that acceptable?

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
It will take quite a while to set this up.

For one thing I need a black male - any volunteers? My black male friend does not want to do it, and besides his demeanor is too nice and smiling, he wouldn't have the effect I want of bringing out people's fears of black male power.

Any volunteers?

Also, I have several other obligations. What is your desired time frame as to when the experiment should be done?

I will promise it by the end of May but I can't promise it sooner. Is that acceptable?

cloudsong

Your experiment timeliness will reflect your desire for justice.
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will also reflect my state of health.

I am glad you are healthy and able bodied. more power to you. I only have a few good hours a day at the most where I am not lying in bed.

cloudsong
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black people are far more affected by disability than white people, by the way.

I want to start posting about the disability issues that affect black people disproportionately - I am involved in all aspects of disability activism and lobbying, not just my own health issues.

I am not wheelchair-bound but I am passionately interested in the rights of those who are. Right now there's a major bill - MICASSA - that is crucial, and I would like anyone's help in calling your congresspeople about it.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cloudsong,

I hope your feeling better. Have you made any progress on your experiment? If so, what is the status? I'm interested in what data you accumulate.
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Steal My Soul



Joined: 20 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont you people feel atleast a little ashamed for the way you treat cloudsong in this thread?
especially smallz with his smug, asshole-ish responses
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will honor my commitment to do this research, and I honor your respect for scientific method but I have not accumulated any data yet because I still haven't found someone to "act" with me, in the research. Might put an ad in the paper as no one I know wants to do it with me. I hope to meet the deadline I set for myself - the end of May.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
I will honor my commitment to do this research, and I honor your respect for scientific method but I have not accumulated any data yet because I still haven't found someone to "act" with me, in the research. Might put an ad in the paper as no one I know wants to do it with me. I hope to meet the deadline I set for myself - the end of May.

cloudsong

Thank you cloudsong.
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