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cloudsong
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Elan, don't waste your time with him. I can not tell if he is white or non-white (my gut instinct from the beginning was that he was white, but I coudln't tell for sure), but he seems like a creep. He can come to the barbecue as the pig if he's just here to make a stupid joke.
I thought of three more ways to counter racism, so that I don't have to come to the BBQ as the pig, myself! :)
One: EVERY White person HAS to get politically involved. There are too many needs and problems to count, to help counter racism in the political system. Any white person who watches TV much, or knits, or plays Monopoly with the family at nights instead of working for the Kerry campaign or for specific issues, is aiding WS/R. There's no time to waste.
Two: White people need to read W.E.B. Dubois and all the great black writers, including the current books, to understand the history of their black brothers and sisters and not live with all the stupid Rush Limbaugh-esque assumptions as truth.
Three: White people need to ask non-white people how they can help in any way. So -- is there anyone here I can help in any way? Private message me. I will help. I also think that when black people have helped me in my life, my heart has soared. I offer the suggestion that black people find ways to help white people, especially poor white people, as karma.
cloudsong |
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Edward Williams
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Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
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If you never get passed the question "Are you a white person?" by getting an answer that makes sense you will be going in circles. And that's exactly where the racists (white supremacists) want you...going in circles instead of right at them.
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What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Guy
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Edward Williams wrote: |
| If you never get passed the question "Are you a white person?" by getting an answer that makes sense you will be going in circles. And that's exactly where the racists (white supremacists) want you...going in circles instead of right at them. |
What is it with this obsession with that question? It's a simple question with no particular significance, yet you guys are positively fixated on it. So what, exactly, do you find so terribly interesting about that simple little question?
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"We know that a doctrine of black supremacy is as evil as a doctrine of white supremacy." (MLK) |
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Josh
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Guy,
are you a White person?
Josh |
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Dan Freeman
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 650
Location: Wherever I'm sent.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Guy wrote: |
| Edward Williams wrote: |
| If you never get passed the question "Are you a white person?" by getting an answer that makes sense you will be going in circles. And that's exactly where the racists (white supremacists) want you...going in circles instead of right at them. |
What is it with this obsession with that question? It's a simple question with no particular significance, yet you guys are positively fixated on it. So what, exactly, do you find so terribly interesting about that simple little question? |
So after you dicide to either answer or NOT answer the critical question, perhaps a classified as white should explain to non-white people WHY the The Critical Question:
ARE YOU A WHITE PERSON?
...is so difficult to answer, when coming from a NON-White person in a conversation about White Supremacy/Racism?
Are white people reluctant answer The Critical Question coming from another white person in a conversation about White Supremacy/Racism?
If so, why?
If not why?
Winston
_________________
Understanding is honoring the truth beneath the surface. |
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Edward Williams
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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I suspect because when non-white people are saying racism = white supremacy it makes white people reluctant to admit they are white. Everyone instinctively knows the term racism (white supremacy) makes any white person that is able to practice racism (white supremacy) a racist suspect.
This is why white people talking to non-white people who use the term "racism white supremacy"...the white people begin to either:
(1) Try to see how much the non-white person knows about how racism (white supremacy) works (i.e. "prove white supremacy exists", "black people can be racists", etc.)
(2) Try to prove to you they are not a racist (white supremacist) (i.e. "I have black friends", "my husband is black", or they never answer the critical question, etc.)
White people ain't gonna use no other strategy because those two work on non-white people who don't use compensatory counter-racist language. If the person never says they are a white person you can't possibly, in a logical fashion, say they are a racist (white supremacist)...even a white person knows that.
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What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Dan Freeman
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 650
Location: Wherever I'm sent.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Edward Williams wrote: |
I suspect because when non-white people are saying racism = white supremacy it makes white people reluctant to admit they are white. Everyone instinctively knows the term racism (white supremacy) makes any white person that is able to practice racism (white supremacy) a racist suspect.
This is why white people talking to non-white people who use the term "racism white supremacy"...the white people begin to either:
(1) Try to see how much the non-white person knows about how racism (white supremacy) works (i.e. "prove white supremacy exists", "black people can be racists", etc.)
(2) Try to prove to you they are not a racist (white supremacist) (i.e. "I have black friends", "my husband is black", or they never answer the critical question, etc.)
White people ain't gonna use no other strategy because those two work on non-white people who don't use compensatory counter-racist language. If the person never says they are a white person you can't possibly, in a logical fashion, say they are a racist (white supremacist)...even a white person knows that. |
Exactly.
Non-white people gotta stop fooling themselves into thinking that people who say that they are White don't know what White Supremacy is.
What then is the significance of being "White"?
Don't take my word for it, start running some counter-racist experiments with The Critical Question and take note...
To me, White people remain the worlds most familiar mystery.
But I could be incorrect.
Winston
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Understanding is honoring the truth beneath the surface. |
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Guy
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Winston Wolfe wrote: |
| Guy wrote: |
| Edward Williams wrote: |
| If you never get passed the question "Are you a white person?" by getting an answer that makes sense you will be going in circles. And that's exactly where the racists (white supremacists) want you...going in circles instead of right at them. |
What is it with this obsession with that question? It's a simple question with no particular significance, yet you guys are positively fixated on it. So what, exactly, do you find so terribly interesting about that simple little question? |
So after you dicide to either answer or NOT answer the critical question, perhaps a classified as white should explain to non-white people WHY the The Critical Question:
ARE YOU A WHITE PERSON?
...is so difficult to answer, when coming from a NON-White person in a conversation about White Supremacy/Racism?
Are white people reluctant answer The Critical Question coming from another white person in a conversation about White Supremacy/Racism?
If so, why?
If not why?
Winston |
No one's reluctant to answer it once; it's what happens after you answer it that you see something truly bizarre. If a normal person were to ask me "Are you a white person," the answer would be "yes" and that would be the end of it. However, when some unbalanced people ask it, they continue asking it - over and over again for months. And/or, at the same time, making childish little quips like "So you're saying you are the color WHITE" To which I explain "No, the term is not literal", to which they'll go "So if you are not a WHITE person, why do you call yourself WHITE?" Answering this nonsense is to feed somoene else's mental infirmity. So, let me do this one last time... Yes, I am a white person. No, that does not mean that I am literally the color white. Yes, I realize that some of you are fixated on that and will obsess over it to eternity.
Now count how many more times I get asked "Are you a WHITE person" by someone who already knows the answer.
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"We know that a doctrine of black supremacy is as evil as a doctrine of white supremacy." (MLK) |
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Guy
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Edward Williams wrote: |
| I suspect because when non-white people are saying racism = white supremacy it makes white people reluctant to admit they are white. |
Please name one white person who is reluctant to "admit" it.
| Quote: |
| Everyone instinctively knows the term racism (white supremacy) makes any white person that is able to practice racism (white supremacy) a racist suspect. |
Actually, no one "knows" any such thing because it's untrue. Being white does not make anyone a "racist suspect" and racism is not limited to white supremacy.
| Quote: |
This is why white people talking to non-white people who use the term "racism white supremacy"...the white people begin to either:
(1) Try to see how much the non-white person knows about how racism (white supremacy) works (i.e. "prove white supremacy exists", "black people can be racists", etc.)
(2) Try to prove to you they are not a racist (white supremacist) (i.e. "I have black friends", "my husband is black", or they never answer the critical question, etc.) |
No, they just see the frustration in someone who's faced with someone fixated on an innocuous question. By the same token, someone could ask you if you were black a few hundred times, or if you like pizza a few hundred times, and you'd get irriated, too. And believe me, asking someone if they're white to the point of exhaustion is as irrational as asking someone if they like pizza to the point of exhaustion.
| Quote: |
| White people ain't gonna use no other strategy because those two work on non-white people who don't use compensatory counter-racist language. |
It's neither compensatory nor counter-racist. It's just odd.
| Quote: |
| If the person never says they are a white person you can't possibly, in a logical fashion, say they are a racist (white supremacist)...even a white person knows that. |
There's nothing logical about asking someone if he's white a few hundred times. There's nothing logical about presuming someone's a "racist suspect" because he's white, and in fact that is itself racist.
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"We know that a doctrine of black supremacy is as evil as a doctrine of white supremacy." (MLK) |
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Edward Williams
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Guy,
Do you have a counter racist (white supremacist) strategy or technique related to the initial post of this thread that you will post to this thread?
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What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Guy
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:10 am Post subject: Re: |
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| Edward Williams wrote: |
Guy,
Do you have a counter racist (white supremacist) strategy or technique related to the initial post of this thread that you will post to this thread? |
There is probably only one counter-racist strategy, and that is to confront racism with facts, reason and morality. As part of that effort, I find myself repeatedly pointing out that racism is not limited to white supremacy. Racism is also black racism, and the way one deals with that is the same one one should, and Dr. King did for example, deal with white supremacy -- with facts, reason and morality.
PS:
Thanks for not asking me if I'm a white person, although I'm sure others will continue to ask that question ad infinitum.
_________________
"We know that a doctrine of black supremacy is as evil as a doctrine of white supremacy." (MLK) |
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Edward Williams
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:46 am Post subject: Re: |
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| Guy wrote: |
| Edward Williams wrote: |
Guy,
Do you have a counter racist (white supremacist) strategy or technique related to the initial post of this thread that you will post to this thread? |
There is probably only one counter-racist strategy, and that is to confront racism with facts, reason and morality. As part of that effort, I find myself repeatedly pointing out that racism is not limited to white supremacy. Racism is also black racism, and the way one deals with that is the same one one should, and Dr. King did for example, deal with white supremacy -- with facts, reason and morality.
PS:
Thanks for not asking me if I'm a white person, although I'm sure others will continue to ask that question ad infinitum. |
Thank you.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Josh
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| "I find myself repeatedly pointing out that racism is not limited to white supremacy. Racism is also black racism," |
Guy, I have studied many of your writings and I notice you never use the term "Black supremacy", to describe what you call "Black racism".
Why do you avoid using the term "Black supremacy"?
Josh |
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Guy
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Josh wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "I find myself repeatedly pointing out that racism is not limited to white supremacy. Racism is also black racism," |
Guy, I have studied many of your writings and I notice you never use the term "Black supremacy", to describe what you call "Black racism".
Why do you avoid using the term "Black supremacy"?
Josh |
Because just as white supremacy is a subset of white racism, black supremacy is a subset of black racism. Black racism is the more accurate and all-encompassing term.
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"We know that a doctrine of black supremacy is as evil as a doctrine of white supremacy." (MLK) |
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Josh
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Because just as white supremacy is a subset of white racism, black supremacy is a subset of black racism. Black racism is the more accurate and all-encompassing term. |
Guy,
what is the difference between [White supremacy] and "White racism"?
Josh |
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