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Leo Felton
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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:37 pm    Post subject: Leo Felton Reply with quote

I think the case of Leo Felton reveals more about What a White person is than anything a White person has ever said to me. Specifically how FUNCTION drives the process of racial classification.

At one point Leo Felton (a self described White supremacist with a Black "father") was walking around passing off counterfit $20 bills to fund his racist activities.

Now take a moment to think about the mechanics of form and function.
They may look like $20 dollar bills but the real test comes when he tries to buy a pack of gum with it and get $19.50 in "good money" as change.

In other words, can he pull it off?

Will the money Leo Felton printed on his computer be accepted as "real money".

In many ways his life is a metaphor of this same scenario.


Can he "pull it off?"

Can he function as a White person?


If so,

What are the mechanics?

Josh



http://www.whiteprivilege.com/archives/2003/05/27/the_strange_story_of_leo_felton#002093
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The psychological baggage of living one's life as a counterfeit twenty dollar bill so to speak as the price of "passing", must be awfully great.

I bet racist whites resent 'passing' because they don't like to think they've been fooled!

Other whites care less who someone says he is or wants to be -- (non-racist whites, obviously).

And all of us are so mixed - I still wonder how/why I'm now 'white' when my maternal great grandmother looked pure Native American. Am I "passing" in some way, I don't know. I find I wish to "pass" for a black person in so many situations in life where I feel rejected by black people. Lately a lot of white people seem to be wishing for more acceptance among black people.

At a lecture I attended on Malcolm X I said, re separatism, "we want you to like us." The author said, "it's not that we don't like you, don't take it personally". I found myself sitting there listening to the lecture feeling so angry that anyone black would want in any way to be separate from us non-racist whites. I was very self-oriented, not seeing it from his perspective that, why should he want to be around us or have us around?

But I found myself wishing I could pass as black. Sounds stupid, I know, but a longing to be accepted in that group and other groups of all black people. Even the little boy there gave everyone a bite of his apple except me?!

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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Joined: 12 Apr 2003
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Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cloudsong,

Another story?
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not understand why this post of my sharing my feelings as white person, in a situation with a black person, is not helpful information, but I will respect your wishes and not post further stories.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
I do not understand why this post of my sharing my feelings as white person, in a situation with a black person, is not helpful information, but I will respect your wishes and not post further stories.

cloudsong

It may be helpful information to some of the non-white people here but not for me. I'm only making reference to my situation as being classified and treated as a non-white person in this unjust SYSTEM of oppression. I do not speak for other non-white people. I repeat...

I do not speak for other non-white people.
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Dan Freeman



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 651
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
couldsound wrote: non-racist whites


Non racist whites?

((scrathin my head))

There is a term I use to describe a white person who may not be practicing Racism/white supremacy at a particular moment:

A racist suspect.

ALL White people who have the abilty to practice racsim WITHIN a system of racsim/white supremacy are at all times suspect Racists/white supremacists.

How does a "non-racist white" fit into this equation?

smallz
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smallz, the answer to your question is:

By countering white supremacy at every possible moment. Because each moment we don't counter it, we are passive participants in it, just by being white and not working against it.

That's how we fit into the picture.

I'm really sorry I sound cold to you. I'm certainly not a perfect person and I may sound cold or hard here, if so I apologize sincerely Smallz. Can you tell me how I could improve? I sense my philosophy doesn't fit in here. I agree with much but disagree with much. But anyway, I guess I agree with you on this, that racist suspect is maybe a better term than non-racist whites. But it just makes me feel so defensive all the time. But as I white person, that's perhaps how I should feel, but what I want to feel is connecting, love, mutual respect, mutual problem solving... can you feel those things too, and feel you're a suspect too, I guess you can. Also there's so much that black people can help white people with.
cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A white person that is not a white supremacist (racist), in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism), is not able to be a white supremacist (racist)...such as a white person in a coma, a dead white person, a new born white baby, a senile white person, etc.

A white person that does not practice white supremacy (racism), in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism), may not be a racist suspect to a white person, but if a non-white person wants to take a logical approach to countering racism (white supremacy), any white person that is able to practice white supremacy (racism), in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism), is a racist suspect.

This is the reason YOU, cloudsong, are a racist suspect. It appears you are trying to convince some non-white people that white people, in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism), can not be white supremacists (racists), while at the same time, non-white people are being mistreated on the basis of color.

If you want to replace white supremacy (racism) with justice cloudsong, you stop practicing white supremacy (racism) and just stop white people from practicing white supremacy (racism). You don't need to talk to non-white people to do that.
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts in reply ( may be incorrect, I can only be honest in my thinking and if I'm incorrect, hope that you change my thinking):

I did say to Smallz that I do agree that "racist suspect" may be a better term than "non-racist whites". Also, other places on your forum I have said that I accept being a racist suspect.

I have used both terms," racist suspect", and "non-racist white", for myself, but in this post I will acknowledge that from now on on this forum I will only use "racist suspect".

Second thought - I disagree that talking with non-white people isn't constructive in fighting WS/R (if you are implying that it isn't constructive, by saying you don't need to talk to non-white people). I don't NEED to talk to non-white people, but doing so is helpful and constructive -- and it is natural and promotes love and human connection. I agree that it is even more important to counter racism myself, and to talk to other white people about countering WS/R, and stop them from practicing WS/R. cloudsong


Last edited by cloudsong on Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:39 am; edited 3 times in total
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

p.s. The reason I am willing to change the term about myself from "non-racist white" to "racist suspect" is because I have followed your logic that a white person who is not a white supremacist, has to be working to counter WS/R every minute, else he is passively going along with it.

So for all the minutes which I am not actively working to counter white supremay and racism, in those minutes I cannot call myself a non-racist white, by the logic.

However, in my heart, I am non-racist and will always be non-racist. I just have to more greatly work against WS/R and get my body out of bed more to do countering actions, even more.

cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

V-God, this is probably the most important question I will ask you and I should have asked it before -- I need to know if one part of your philsophy here is so completely opposite to mine, because if it is I will realize this isn't the forum for me.

My philosophy is to get white and non-white people together, in addition to everything else white people need to do to counter WS/R. My question for you is, do you believe in separatism between white and non-white people? Do you believe in all of us spending time together, talking together?

Your answer to that will tell me if your philosophy, while I agree with much of it, is something I want to participate in, or is something I should recommend to other white people, white people who share my philosophy of getting all people together to talk and dialogue, as well as fighting white supremacy on our own as well.

I need that information to make a judgment about the appropriateness of my participation here, if you are willing to provide that clarification. cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the most important reason I feel we need to get together -- as a white person, alarm bells go off in my head at certain things...

I need to share them. Liike, this new idea to have historically black colleges help in Haiti, in rebuilding...

That could be good, but I think of all the ways it could be a TRAP for black people... I know that many black people think of those ways too, but I as a white person can bring a level of suspiciousness and insight too.

If we aren't together, and aren't communicating together, that won't happen as easily, for white people to warn black people of traps etc.. If I'm not on this forum, and if I'm not in contact with black people, how can I warn them of things?

AND, if we ARE in contact, are you saying, "well just warn us of things but don't try to be our friends?" That doesn't get a very good response from me because it's like using one part of us, then throwing us away.

cloudsong
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James Jones
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Cloudsong (IN AS FEW WORDS AS POSSIBLE),

1. How far should a Non-White person be from a White person to insure that mistreatment does not occur.

2. How close should a Non-White person be to a White person to insure that they will recieve the most help for any help that is needed?
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

NECKST wrote:
Cloudsong (IN AS FEW WORDS AS POSSIBLE),

1. How far should a Non-White person be from a White person to insure that mistreatment does not occur.

2. How close should a Non-White person be to a White person to insure that they will recieve the most help for any help that is needed?


Neckst, I think you should say "white supremacist person" rather than white person.

Your questions make me think in a different way. I guess I would say that there is no distance at which mistreatment cannot occur;
and
To receive the most help, one can be at any distance.

However, being in contact and communication with each other to me is good. Like you and I are communicating right now - that's better than you and I not communicating, to me at least.

Non-white people who believe in separatism from white people have their good arguments. I just disagree respectfully. cloudsong
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James Jones
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Cloudsong (IN AS FEW WORDS AS POSSIBLE),

1. How far should a Non-White person be from a White person to insure that mistreatment does not occur.

2. How close should a Non-White person be to a White person to insure that they will recieve the most help for any help that is needed?


I would say that there is no distance at which mistreatment cannot occur...

...And to receive the most help, one can be at any distance.


THIS IS CORRECT,

It doesn't matter if a Nigga wants to be around you (to communicate...) or not, they're STILL A VICTIM of RACISM/WHITE SUPREMACY, and JUSTICE HAS NOT BEEN PRODUCED!

(REPLY IN AS FEW WORDS AS POSSIBLE)
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