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Respect
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Trina



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:45 am    Post subject: Respect Reply with quote

Self-Respect: Pronunciation Key

The refusal to lie to oneself and letting other's know of that refusal to lie to yourself.


Last edited by Trina on Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:56 am    Post subject: As I understand it... Reply with quote

As I understand it, respect is something you have or don't have...it is not something you give.

If that is true why use the word "self" with it?

I could be incorrect.
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copious



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: As I understand it... Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
As I understand it, respect is something you have or don't have...it is not something you give.

If that is true why use the word "self" with it?

I could be incorrect.




I agree. respect can not be GIVEN to another person, though I tend to hear it used as a form of accepted trust conveyed from one person to another.

Self-respect can be given to one's self (in my now thinking) because each individual can only control themselves therfore they are in direct control of how they percieve and respond unto themselves.



edited:

Self-respect consist of several things to me I'll attempt to list them.

1. Positive & constructive force within in regards to thought speech and action
2. Entrusting in one's self
3. The rejection of shame blame and/or guilt


Are there any more qualities self-respect requires?


Later,
cope



PS: I do question the culture that surrounds RESPECT. Have other civilizations had to QUANTIFY respect unto one's self? what I'm reaching at is simplification. Is respect the simplest most effective use of logic in regards to people or is it an unecessary word and unecessary thought? Do people allways have SELF-RESPECT wherever they are, whenever they are?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: As I understand it... Reply with quote

copious wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
As I understand it, respect is something you have or don't have...it is not something you give.

If that is true why use the word "self" with it?

I could be incorrect.




I agree. respect can not be GIVEN, though I tend to hear it used as a form of accepted trust conveyed from one person to another.



edited:

Self-respect consist of several things to me I'll attempt to list them.

1. Positive & constructive force within in regards to thought speech and action
2. Entrusting in one's self
3. The rejection of shame blame and/or guilt


Are there any more qualities self-respect requires?








Later,
cope

Now I'm really confused! Why use so many words copious? Simplify! Is what you stated written in the best possible way? Can a third grader understand what you wrote copious?
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Trina



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: As I understand it... Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
As I understand it, respect is something you have or don't have...it is not something you give.

If that is true why use the word "self" with it?

I could be incorrect.


Virtual GOD,

I see what you are saying and I agree with Copious when he says that respect cannot be given to someone else. I also agree with Neely Fuller who says in the Code book that the only true form of respect is the respect you give to one's self. He uses the word give in quotes and he could have used the word have. I guess it's a matter of which term reveals more truth, self-respect or respect.

This is the English language and it is a deceptive language coming from people who may or may not be thinking in a deceptive way. There are a lot of words that don't make sense and are not necessary. According to Counter-Racist science we should use words to reveal truth and promote justice. That means a lot of words will have to be re-defined, refined or dropped altogether. I see this not an easy task.

Trina
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: As I understand it... Reply with quote

Trina wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
As I understand it, respect is something you have or don't have...it is not something you give.

If that is true why use the word "self" with it?

I could be incorrect.


Virtual GOD,

I see what you are saying and I agree with Copious when he says that respect cannot be given to someone else. I also agree with Neely Fuller who says in the Code book that the only true form of respect is the respect you give to one's self. He uses the word give in quotes and he could have used the word have. I guess it's a matter of which term reveals more truth, self-respect or respect.

This is the English language and it is a deceptive language coming from people who may or may not be thinking in a deceptive way. There are a lot of words that don't make sense and are not necessary. According to Counter-Racist science we should use words to reveal truth and promote justice. That means a lot of words will have to be re-defined, refined or dropped altogether. I see this not an easy task.

Trina


I'm not sure if it is a " matter of which term reveals more truth, self-respect or respect". I think it is a matter of revealing truth and using truth to promote justice and correctness in all places and at all times.

By correctness I mean using the least amount of words and/or actions to reveal truth. We have to keep in mind that we have to keep simplifying. We're here to come up with counter-racist definitions and make sure those definitions are airtight.

The word "self-respect" implies there is another kind of respect other than "self"...in which there is no other.

Can we just say "respect" instead of "self-respect"? If not why not?
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copious



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen wrote:
Can we just say "respect" instead of "self-respect"? If not why not?


Part of the CHALLENGE in using counter racist language is working around words that DO NOT reveal truth.

Respect is illogical in the way it is often used because it implies one must GET this respect from another person - like a commodity: land, gold, guns, cheese and biscuits. Respect becomes an OBJECT to posses and like any object it can be TAKEN AWAY. This is the deception in the definition, as long as we keep looking OUT THERE for respect we may not realize we allready have it.


The difficulty and the challenge comes in using the word to reveal truth by redefinition. How do we prevent confussion with so many words needing redefinition (not just this one)?


Would it be better to say Self-respect and respect are EQUAL. Using the least amount of words to reveal the most truth.

Respect = Self respect.

cope
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copious



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trina wrote:
There are a lot of words that don't make sense and are not necessary. According to Counter-Racist science we should use words to reveal truth and promote justice. That means a lot of words will have to be re-defined, refined or dropped altogether. I see this not an easy task.



I agree.


cope
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Trina



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD,

Like I was saying in my earlier post that the English language is a deceptive language and that a lot of words have to be re-defined, refined, or dropped from usage altogether. We can say respect because self-respect does imply another form of respect.

I agree with you!

Trina


Last edited by Trina on Thu May 12, 2005 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Trina wrote:
Virtual_GOD,

Like I was saying in my earlier post that the English language is a deceptive language and that a lot of words have to be re-defined, refined,
or dropped from usage altogether. We can say respect because self-respect does imply another form of respect.

I agree with you!

Trina

Trina,

According to the definition you've provided (self) respect cannot exist unless we are under a system of justice. Is this correct?

I could be incorrect but number two (2) states that (self) respect is "The just treatment of the total self (mind, body,spirit)". How can you have justice or just treatment in the same universe as injustice at the same time?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

copious wrote:
Amen wrote:
Can we just say "respect" instead of "self-respect"? If not why not?


Part of the CHALLENGE in using counter racist language is working around words that DO NOT reveal truth.

What do you mean when you say "working around words"?

copious wrote:
Respect is illogical in the way it is often used because it implies one must GET this respect from another person - like a commodity: land, gold, guns, cheese and biscuits. Respect becomes an OBJECT to posses and like any object it can be TAKEN AWAY. This is the deception in the definition, as long as we keep looking OUT THERE for respect we may not realize we allready have it.


The difficulty and the challenge comes in using the word to reveal truth by redefinition. How do we prevent confussion with so many words needing redefinition (not just this one)?


Would it be better to say Self-respect and respect are EQUAL. Using the least amount of words to reveal the most truth.

Respect = Self respect.

cope

We can say football = respect but how will that reveal truth? It is logical to me to use the definition of respect that is "refusing to lie to yourself and letting all others know you refuse to lie to yourself". This is logical for me because it fits my definition of logic, which is "the process for doing something and doing it".

Anyone can use any definition they want whenever they want. But we're talking about the biggest problem in the universe and you definately want to minimize mistakes if you're trying to solve it.
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copious



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen wrote:
What do you mean when you say "working around words"?


I ment the word as it is defined culturally (by most people I have met) or that which most people tend to use it.



Amen wrote:
We can say football = respect but how will that reveal truth?


I didn't make that connection so I wouldn't know.

What I did say is Respect = Self-respect. Let's simplify for sake of argument (point taken) - I will simply say respect from now on.

Amen wrote:
"refusing to lie to yourself and letting all others know you refuse to lie to yourself"


Is there a way to restate this definition in a more positive manor? Also can this definition be simplified to just

"Being honest to one's self" or "Being honest to self"?


Good introspection. I look forward to your reply.

cope
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copious



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trina wrote:
The refusal to lie to oneself and letting other's know of that refusal. (2) The just treatment of the total self (mind, body,spirit).


Is the dual definition necessary? I question why you need to say "refusal to lie to oneself" and "just treatment of the toal..". How do these differ in scope and meaning?

I also disagree with the latter half of 1, because that seems to mean that respect requires approval of others. I could be incorrect please help me in my thinking.

Definition 2 also does not seem definative enough either. What do you mean by spirit?

I'm going to brain storm here.
Does respect have to do with:
    choices?
    correctness?
    justice?
    self?
    acceptance?
    thinking?doing?being?


The UIC C/S/C defines respect as wrote:
The process of seeking to know and understand all that is not known and understood

Explanation:
Respect is not something that one "has", as so much as it is somthing that one does. Respect is somthing that one participates in


Do you agree or disagree? I noticed he used some words you redefined earlier (understand / understood). does this definition make sense?

Please refer to the post I wrote above as well.

Thank you,
cope
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

copious wrote:
I ment the word as it is defined culturally (by most people I have met) or that which most people tend to use it.

The way a word is defined "culturally"? What other ways are words defined? Phonetically? Grammatically? Verbally? Socially? Politically? I don't get THE LOGIC.

copious wrote:
Is there a way to restate this definition in a more positive manor?

Please define "positive".

copious wrote:
Also can this definition be simplified to just

"Being honest to one's self" or "Being honest to self"?

If you say that you'll have to define "honest". "Being" as in a state of being? Isn't honesty an expression of feelings? How does an expression of feelings equal the revelation of truth? Which feelings? What kind if expression? An act or just a thought? If a man feels he wants to cheat on his wife but only thinks about it is that honesty?

Copious, I would like to make a suggestion if I may. Find you a 3-5 year old and every time you come up with a definition of a word that you say is designed to reveal truth, run it past them. The younger the better. Also explain to them what THE LOGIC is for the definition.

If the 3-5 year old understands the definition and THE LOGIC of the definition you should have a base to work from. Don't add any additional words! Refine the definition by removing words and/or using words that allow you to do less work using the words.
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copious



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
copious wrote:
I ment the word as it is defined culturally (by most people I have met) or that which most people tend to use it.

The way a word is defined "culturally"? What other ways are words defined? Phonetically? Grammatically? Verbally? Socially? Politically? I don't get THE LOGIC.


I defined what I ment by culturally in the parentheses. "The way most people use it" is a reference to the dictionary term "respect".

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=respect

This definition does not reveal enough truth which is why I phrased it in contrast to what I was stating at the time.


Virtual_GOD wrote:

copious wrote:
Is there a way to restate this definition in a more positive manor?

Please define "positive".


postive: True.


Virtual_GOD wrote:

copious wrote:
Also can this definition be simplified to just

"Being honest to one's self" or "Being honest to self"?

If you say that you'll have to define "honest". "Being" as in a state of being? Isn't honesty an expression of feelings? How does an expression of feelings equal the revelation of truth? Which feelings? What kind if expression? An act or just a thought? If a man feels he wants to cheat on his wife but only thinks about it is that honesty?

Copious, I would like to make a suggestion if I may. Find you a 3-5 year old and every time you come up with a definition of a word that you say is designed to reveal truth, run it past them. The younger the better. Also explain to them what THE LOGIC is for the definition.

If the 3-5 year old understands the definition and THE LOGIC of the definition you should have a base to work from. Don't add any additional words! Refine the definition by removing words and/or using words that allow you to do less work using the words.


Honest: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=honest
Being: (bng)first person singular present indicative am

I didn't use "honesty".


I have been thinking about a more constructive definition than the one given while using it as a base for my own definition. I would also like others to comment on the definition.

Respect:"Accepting sole response-ability for one's self by thought, speech and action."

Is this definition more effective in revealing truth?


Later,
cope

PS: I am aware that "thought" and "action" are redundant. I will return to this latter.
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