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Too Positive? Too Confident?

 
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:55 am    Post subject: Too Positive? Too Confident? Reply with quote

I was told by my manager recently that I am "too confident" and "too positive" in my responses with other people. My manager also told me that she spoke to other people and they say the same things "so it's something you're putting out" and she also said "take care of that for me".

In other words I don't laugh and joke enough. A nigger is just supposed to provide comic relief...not solve problems.

I sent a mail to my manager and prefaced by saying if a problem exists, especially a communication problem, we should find out exactly what the problem is and the process for solving the problem.

I went on to say that I need help. I asked for help by asking for exactly who has stated to her that there is a communication problem between myself and that person. I also asked for help by asking for exactly what should be done in my communications with that person to minimize confusion and also minimize conflict. I went into detail by asking exactly what should be said in my communication with the other person and exactly what should be done in my communication with the other person to minimize confusion and also minimize conflict.

What does this do? It keeps me from being harmed. I'm asking for help from a white person that may or may not be able to help me but should have the ability to find help for me, especially since they are my manager. Also, I'm asking for constructive information to get the job done. I'm also asking for exactly what should be said and/or done because if someone says I shouldn't have done this or said that my response will be "I did what I was told to do".

This keeps me from being harmed. Don't continue to allow white people to make these kinds of comments to you on the job without them providing evidence and a solution to the problem. Now who better to tell me how to solve a problem un der a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) but a white person?

I haven't received a response yet but I will resend the e-mail this week. Since I get read-receipts on all e-mail I know my manager read the mail...and I keep the read-receipt with a copy of the e-mail I sent. I'll keep everyone posted.
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Trina



Joined: 25 Apr 2003
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Location: Somewhere Between the 3rd and 5th Dimension

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Too Positive? Too Confident? Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
I was told by my manager recently that I am "too confident" and "too positive" in my responses with other people. My manager also told me that she spoke to other people and they say the same things "so it's something you're putting out" and she also said "take care of that for me".

In other words I don't laugh and joke enough. A nigger is just supposed to provide comic relief...not solve problems.

I sent a mail to my manager and prefaced by saying if a problem exists, especially a communication problem, we should find out exactly what the problem is and the process for solving the problem.

I went on to say that I need help. I asked for help by asking for exactly who has stated to her that there is a communication problem between myself and that person. I also asked for help by asking for exactly what should be done in my communications with that person to minimize confusion and also minimize conflict. I went into detail by asking exactly what should be said in my communication with the other person and exactly what should be done in my communication with the other person to minimize confusion and also minimize conflict.

What does this do? It keeps me from being harmed. I'm asking for help from a white person that may or may not be able to help me but should have the ability to find help for me, especially since they are my manager. Also, I'm asking for constructive information to get the job done. I'm also asking for exactly what should be said and/or done because if someone says I shouldn't have done this or said that my response will be "I did what I was told to do".

This keeps me from being harmed. Don't continue to allow white people to make these kinds of comments to you on the job without them providing evidence and a solution to the problem. Now who better to tell me how to solve a problem un der a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) but a white person?

I haven't received a response yet but I will resend the e-mail this week. Since I get read-receipts on all e-mail I know my manager read the mail...and I keep the read-receipt with a copy of the e-mail I sent. I'll keep everyone posted.


Virtual_GOD,

That was an interesting post. I suspect if you were a White person you would never be judged to be "too positive and too confident". Having a positive and confident attitude or demeanor with people would be viewed as favorable. A lot of VOR's who are serious about their work receive comments from White people telling them to smile more, "lighten up" and your too business like.

Also, your response to your manager is very informative as to way VOR's should handle similar situations such as yours. Thank you for the information. I'd be very interested in how your manager responds to your e-mail.

Trina


Last edited by Trina on Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told by my manager recently that I am "too confident" and "too positive" in my responses with other people--VGOD



Hmmm?

I would respond just as you did with a question.

Specifically what is meant by "too confident and too positive?

Like you, I think I know what they mean but its better to get the person making the charge on the record of EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEAN.

Too many White people are brought up on a steady diet of Eddie Murphy, Martin Lawrence, Chris Tucker "nigger shtick". Then when they meet a business like serious Black person they're like: "whats tha matter with you?"

(((shakin my head)))

My suggestion is to maintain your current codified approach.

And keep asking questions that reveal truth.

Josh
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
I was told by my manager recently that I am "too confident" and "too positive" in my responses with other people--VGOD



Hmmm?

I would respond just as you did with a question.

Specifically what is meant by "too confident and too positive?

Like you, I think I know what they mean but its better to get the person making the charge on the record of EXACTLY WHAT THEY MEAN.

Too many White people are brought up on a steady diet of Eddie Murphy, Martin Lawrence, Chris Tucker "nigger shtick". Then when they meet a business like serious Black person they're like: "whats tha matter with you?"

(((shakin my head)))

My suggestion is to maintain your current codified approach.

And keep asking questions that reveal truth.

Josh

Thanks Josh.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:10 am    Post subject: Resent E-Mail... Reply with quote

Well, I resent the e-mail and still got no response. My manager opened it though. I know because I have "read receipt" on all sent e-mail messages.

Isn't that interesting? Even e-mail is following logic. It's called "read receipt" but it doesn't mean the person actually read the e-mail...but here's the question...

Why open the e-mail if you're not going to read it?

Anyway, no response again. But it doesn't matter. The reason it doesn't matter is if anything happens and I'm accused of doing or saying something that shouldn't have been done or said I can always show evidence that I was told a problem existed but not told what to say to solve the problem or what to do to solve the problem and here's the key thing...

I asked for help.

So if anything happens in the future that is related to communications...it doesn't have to be related to this particular incident...I can always say "I asked for help with that from a manager and they wouldn't provide any help". Then I'll ask a question.

What should I do if my manager will not help me?

See, this way I am presenting evidence that whatever problem we're talking about right now, which I suspect is a communication problem as most problems are under the SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy), and no one that I asked, who should've been able to help me, would help me. This keeps me from being harmed.

Under the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) non-white people should not be harmed. Under the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) non-white people are childlike...don't own nothing...because the white supremacists (racists) who are in charge seize people...not land or water or "natural resources" whatever that means.

A child depends on an adult...an adult doesn't depend on a child. Whenever something is going on that may be harmful to people the first thing you do is get the children out of harms way. Then the people with the greatest ability to solve the problem should solve the problem. Even in a "child care center"...if a fire breaks out...the first thing they do is get the helpless people out of the way.

This strategy helps me to move myself out of harms way because there is something going on that is harmful to non-white people...and that something is white supremacy (racism).
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Auditor1



Joined: 17 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Too Positive? Too Confident? Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
I was told by my manager recently that I am "too confident" and "too positive" in my responses with other people. My manager also told me that she spoke to other people and they say the same things "so it's something you're putting out" and she also said "take care of that for me".

In other words I don't laugh and joke enough. A nigger is just supposed to provide comic relief...not solve problems.

I sent a mail to my manager and prefaced by saying if a problem exists, especially a communication problem, we should find out exactly what the problem is and the process for solving the problem.

I went on to say that I need help. I asked for help by asking for exactly who has stated to her that there is a communication problem between myself and that person. I also asked for help by asking for exactly what should be done in my communications with that person to minimize confusion and also minimize conflict. I went into detail by asking exactly what should be said in my communication with the other person and exactly what should be done in my communication with the other person to minimize confusion and also minimize conflict.

What does this do? It keeps me from being harmed. I'm asking for help from a white person that may or may not be able to help me but should have the ability to find help for me, especially since they are my manager. Also, I'm asking for constructive information to get the job done. I'm also asking for exactly what should be said and/or done because if someone says I shouldn't have done this or said that my response will be "I did what I was told to do".

This keeps me from being harmed. Don't continue to allow white people to make these kinds of comments to you on the job without them providing evidence and a solution to the problem. Now who better to tell me how to solve a problem un der a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) but a white person?

I haven't received a response yet but I will resend the e-mail this week. Since I get read-receipts on all e-mail I know my manager read the mail...and I keep the read-receipt with a copy of the e-mail I sent. I'll keep everyone posted.


Sounds like they are building a case against you for discharge. If I was you I would start saving my money because you could be on the unemployment line soon. Don't be fooled into thinking you're safe on that white man's job. Every white man's job represent the plantation, if you are black in America working on the white man's job yu are a slave. Slaves don't get rights, slaves aren't treated with justice and slaves are never protected from harm.
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elan_noir



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the job in the white racist supremacy system is like moving from one plantation to another.

In my first job out of college, I didn't talk to anyone and did all my work and overtime so that I could impress the boss and managers. In my second annual review, I was told that I was "too quiet", but they reassured me that my work was excellent. I had 12% raise to boot.

Before even without knowing Fuller's Code, I asked to director (white racist woman), "How shall I tackle this issue of being too quiet?" She says, " Just get up and talk to people when you feel like it. Don't even talk about work. Ask how is the day going along."

I wrote that down and asked them to repeat it slowly so that I would get exactly what I need to do. I would made sure that the directors saw me talk to people during office hours, then I would invite them into the conversations.

I talked to every person in that office of forty people, even to the ones I could not stand! The every next year, no one had a negative thing to say about me, because I had everyone in the palm of hands.

I am excellent with my finances, so I didn't care with they fired me for whatever reasons.

I left that company 2 1/2 years ago to become a project manager, which my previous company would not "allow" me to be.

I got some stories about being too confident at my current job, but I'll post those later.

-Elan
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Josh



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I asked to director (white racist woman), "How shall I tackle this issue of being too quiet?" She says, " Just get up and talk to people when you feel like it. Don't even talk about work. Ask how is the day going along."
---elan_noir


Now thats INTERESTING!


A Black person being "too quiet"...

How come every Black female is expected to act like OPRAH?

Thanks elan_noir; I had my suspicions about the types of "nigger training" Black females are subjected to but I wasn't sure.


"Don't even talk about work. Ask how is the day going along."

Next thing you know they got you servin coffee and holdin they hands...

Josh
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elan_noir



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though, the ex-employer wanted me to ham it up whenever possible, I found that I was building charisma, which helped me to talk to anyone. By smiling, ALL of the staff found me non-threatening!

However, in the office, many of the black employees who chose not to ham it up were eventually displaced, fired, let-go, laid off, or asked to resign.

Eventually, I got "too confident" and boycotted some office duties that were placed on me that were not in my initial job discription. I even posted a sign reading ,"ON STRIKE", in big pink letters. I was not fired and people (white and non-white) respected me for making that statement. I still got a raise and no mention of the self imposed strike was mentioned in the annual review, but they did hire someone to do the work part-time.

I felt powerful for standing up the powers that be. I only had perceived power because they (white racist supremacist) allowed me to have power which had not been granted to a non-white. Then, I started to think what other demands, within reason, can I get away with since my confidence proved to work to my advantage?

If my ex-employer would have fired me for doing some petty work, I was already paid so well that I could chill comfortably before finding another job.

I did not receive my nigger wake-up call until two years after I left that firm. I felt passified and asleep because I never had any problems and things pretty much went my way. However, my code is to be confident in my work abilities, being realistic, and being aware of the world around me.

Being too confident or too positive means you better be sure you ain't got nothing to lose but everything to gain.

In the beginning, I just wanted people to like me. Now I just want to be respected.

-Elan
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Trina



Joined: 25 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elan,

Just give yourself respect . Don't look for it from anyone else, white or non-white.

Trina

aka

Miss T
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the opposite feedback on a job. I had a job for a short while teaching English to South American businessmen who were paying a lot to be at the center where I was teaching. My boss told me I did not project enough of a "confident aura", although he admitted that I was doing the teaching just fine, and he said I needed to be more of an assertive authority figure.

That seems the opposite of what happened to you V-God. You should have been working where I was, they WANTED confidence!

There was WS/R in my opinion because he wanted the businessmen to come in and see very confident assertive teachers (all white), whereas I felt that teaching was more a reactive and listening situation, and my style was more "build up the student's confidence". If you're teaching well, your teaching results should show in the confidence of your student, more than your confidence in yourself.

From that situation I learned a lot though, I learned how important it is to present an image consistent with what is wanted by the boss.

I have also observed that any black person with normal confidence is perceived as arrogant by certain white people who wouldn't perceive white people with normal confidence as being arrogant.

cloudsong
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
I had the opposite feedback on a job. I had a job for a short while teaching English to South American businessmen who were paying a lot to be at the center where I was teaching. My boss told me I did not project enough of a "confident aura", although he admitted that I was doing the teaching just fine, and he said I needed to be more of an assertive authority figure.

That seems the opposite of what happened to you V-God. You should have been working where I was, they WANTED confidence!

There was WS/R in my opinion because he wanted the businessmen to come in and see very confident assertive teachers (all white), whereas I felt that teaching was more a reactive and listening situation, and my style was more "build up the student's confidence". If you're teaching well, your teaching results should show in the confidence of your student, more than your confidence in yourself.

From that situation I learned a lot though, I learned how important it is to present an image consistent with what is wanted by the boss.

I have also observed that any black person with normal confidence is perceived as arrogant by certain white people who wouldn't perceive white people with normal confidence as being arrogant.

cloudsong

Yes...but you're white aren't you?

I suspect you were told what you were told because you were supposed to be "the authority figure" to the non-white people. I was told what I was told, I suspect, because I am not supposed to be "the authority figure" when white people are present.

You seem to make a lot of statements to attempt to "prove" that what non-white people are experiencing is not about color...seemingly...in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism). I think if you focus more on replacing white supremacy (racism) with justice the world would be a better place.

Just a suggestion.
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I agree with you completely -- I realize I didn't put it with the best words apparently because yours is the point that I was trying to make -

If I had been non-white, a normal level of confidence might have been seen as arrogance. As white, a normal level of confidence was seen as not enough. They didn't like my being deferential to the non-white men.

When black people are called "over-confident" what I've observed is that "over-confident" is a code word for "arrogant", but the white people realize that "arrogant" is too loaded a word, so they use "over-confident".

They say "he's over-confident" but what they're really saying is that he has the normal confidence that in a white person would be fine, but in a black person it's too much, it's "over".

Of course not all white people feel this way.

cloudsong
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

p.s. I see how my first post wasn't clear.

When I say I learned to give the boss what he wants, I do NOT recommend that non-white people give anything less than complete confidence, to a boss who wants less than complete confidence. Do NOT give that kind of boss what he wants, because what he wants is unjust.

In my case, I think I DID need to learn how to appear more confident, but I resented the effort to make me non-deferential to students.
cloudsong
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cloudsong



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's strking about the contrast in the feedback you got as a non-white person and I got as a white person is how white people are often really subconscionsly taught to act/feel superior and condescending to non-white people, and non-white people are taught to act deferential to white people.

I personally try to act from a position of humility and deference to others, and I don't feel ANY person ever has the right to feel superior to any other person.

I see humility as a quality based on truly being great -- the more truly good and just as person is, the great humility he has -- i.e. Jesus, Nelson Mandela, etc.

My goal is to act with humility to everyone, even if some white people don't like that. I frankly find I have to fight my natural instinctive pugnacity and arrogance, picked up being white in this world, and tune into my other side of humility, which is different from confidence level. The goal is to be both confident, and humble.

cloudsong
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