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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Without explaining the "whys," however, the cultivation of the will to do the "hows and whats" will rarely take place. People need to understand why doing something difficult will work.



They understand something will work when you show them HOW.


Josh
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HelixHair



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Josh wrote:
Quote:
Without explaining the "whys," however, the cultivation of the will to do the "hows and whats" will rarely take place. People need to understand why doing something difficult will work.



They understand something will work when you show them HOW.


Josh


Please explain this statement as applied to the first space travel.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HelixHair wrote:
Josh wrote:
Quote:
Without explaining the "whys," however, the cultivation of the will to do the "hows and whats" will rarely take place. People need to understand why doing something difficult will work.



They understand something will work when you show them HOW.


Josh


Please explain this statement as applied to the first space travel.

If I may...

I suspect they followed the logic for space travel....meaning the process for doing it and doing it. They followed what they thought was the process for space travel and to prove it was the process to them and everyone else they did it. They didn't sit around talking for 50 years about whether the "whys" or the "hows" were more important. They did it. They didn't get stuck in the PARALYSIS OF ANALYSIS. They went straight from this is I think the logical process is for doing it to HOW to do it.

I agree that it all starts with "why" and people have to have a reason for doing anything. We are talking about people that are born into a SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy) where they can see white people and non-white people producing offspring all the time and their offspring is mistreated on the basis of color. What is the reason to maintain this SYSTEM? Who cares? The racists (white supremacists) ain't gonna negotiate with anyone that thinks they know why white people practice racism (white supremacy) into them stopping the practice of it.

I actually went to a gathering where people were talking about proposing to white people that non-white people will stop having sexual intercourse with white people if white people will stop practice racism (white supremacy). Can you believe that? The discussion is for sale in the Counter-Racism Mall.

No SEX Between White People and Non-White People..

The paramount question should be why should YOU, as an individual person, want to produce a SYSTEM of justice. As soon as YOU figure that out YOU, as an individual person, can immediately go to how to do it, in a logical fashion, following a process that leads you through how to do it and to prove you are doing it you will have to do it.
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Dark Switch



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:17 pm    Post subject: Logic, How and Why Reply with quote

Edward Williams wrote:
HelixHair wrote:
Josh wrote:
Quote:
Without explaining the "whys," however, the cultivation of the will to do the "hows and whats" will rarely take place. People need to understand why doing something difficult will work.



They understand something will work when you show them HOW.


Josh


Please explain this statement as applied to the first space travel.

If I may...

I suspect they followed the logic for space travel....meaning the process for doing it and doing it. They followed what they thought was the process for space travel and to prove it was the process to them and everyone else they did it. They didn't sit around talking for 50 years about whether the "whys" or the "hows" were more important. They did it. They didn't get stuck in the PARALYSIS OF ANALYSIS. They went straight from this is I think the logical process is for doing it to HOW to do it.

They did it eventually, but I suspect they got stuck along the ways. Does Logic save us from occasionally finding ourselves down a blind alley? You could be correct, they didn't sit around asking whether "why" or how" was more important, however they most certainly used both in their endeavours.

Pardon me, but . . . did your answer reveal any truth, or answer the question? Were you refering to space travel or counter-racist logic? It seems to rest on a set of circular definitions reaffirmed unexamined, after they were queried in the logic thread. I’m looking at these "translations" from that page with a real puzzled expression on my face.

What is the “saying and doing” stage of “the process of doing something and doing it process”?

Does being in the "process of processing" reveal any truth to someone who has no idea what you are doing?

If we can’t do the “and doing part it” of the codified definition of “logic” then none of us can actually follow the logic, can we?

Quote:
I agree that it all starts with "why" and people have to have a reason for doing anything. We are talking about people that are born into a SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy) where they can see white people and non-white people producing offspring all the time and their offspring is mistreated on the basis of color. What is the reason to maintain this SYSTEM? Who cares? The racists (white supremacists) ain't gonna negotiate with anyone that thinks they know why white people practice racism (white supremacy) into them stopping the practice of it.

I actually went to a gathering where people were talking about proposing to white people that non-white people will stop having sexual intercourse with white people if white people will stop practice racism (white supremacy). Can you believe that? The discussion is for sale in the Counter-Racism Mall.

No SEX Between White People and Non-White People..

It's painful for non-white people to see white people mistreating non-white people on the basis of color. Of course your correct, racists (white supremacists), whatever you offer, ain't gonna negotiate to stop practicing something which they don't wanna admit they are practicing—even if counter-racists have a theory about the motivation behind their behaviour.

Quote:
The paramount question should be why should YOU, as an individual person, want to produce a SYSTEM of justice. As soon as YOU figure that out YOU, as an individual person, can immediately go to how to do it, in a logical fashion, following a process that leads you through how to do it and to prove you are doing it you will have to do it.

I overstand VOR/WS wanting to DO something immediately.

How do you get from New York to Los Angeles? Easy, get on a bus. Don't concern yourself with asking why one has Los Angeles marked on the front and another has New Orleans.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Logic, How and Why Reply with quote

Dark Switch wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:
HelixHair wrote:
Josh wrote:
Quote:
Without explaining the "whys," however, the cultivation of the will to do the "hows and whats" will rarely take place. People need to understand why doing something difficult will work.



They understand something will work when you show them HOW.


Josh


Please explain this statement as applied to the first space travel.

If I may...

I suspect they followed the logic for space travel....meaning the process for doing it and doing it. They followed what they thought was the process for space travel and to prove it was the process to them and everyone else they did it. They didn't sit around talking for 50 years about whether the "whys" or the "hows" were more important. They did it. They didn't get stuck in the PARALYSIS OF ANALYSIS. They went straight from this is I think the logical process is for doing it to HOW to do it.

They did it eventually, but I suspect they got stuck along the ways. Does Logic save us from occasionally finding ourselves down a blind alley?

I don't know.

Dark Switch wrote:
You could be correct, they didn't sit around asking whether "why" or how" was more important, however they most certainly used both in their endeavours.

Pardon me, but . . . did your answer reveal any truth, or answer the question?

It was a response to a statement. Please see HelixHair's request to explain something above.

Dark Switch wrote:
Were you refering to space travel or counter-racist logic?

Logic.

Dark Switch wrote:
It seems to rest on a set of circular definitions reaffirmed unexamined, after they were queried in the logic thread. I’m looking at these "translations" from that page with a real puzzled expression on my face.

What is the “saying and doing” stage of “the process of doing something and doing it process”?

Every process requires saying and/or doing.

Dark Switch wrote:
Does being in the "process of processing" reveal any truth to someone who has no idea what you are doing?

I don't know.

Dark Switch wrote:
If we can’t do the “and doing part it” of the codified definition of “logic” then none of us can actually follow the logic, can we?

Yes. You'll get to the “and doing part it” when you get to the “and doing part it”.

Dark Switch wrote:
Quote:
I agree that it all starts with "why" and people have to have a reason for doing anything. We are talking about people that are born into a SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy) where they can see white people and non-white people producing offspring all the time and their offspring is mistreated on the basis of color. What is the reason to maintain this SYSTEM? Who cares? The racists (white supremacists) ain't gonna negotiate with anyone that thinks they know why white people practice racism (white supremacy) into them stopping the practice of it.

I actually went to a gathering where people were talking about proposing to white people that non-white people will stop having sexual intercourse with white people if white people will stop practice racism (white supremacy). Can you believe that? The discussion is for sale in the Counter-Racism Mall.

No SEX Between White People and Non-White People..

It's painful for non-white people to see white people mistreating non-white people on the basis of color. Of course your correct, racists (white supremacists), whatever you offer, ain't gonna negotiate to stop practicing something which they don't wanna admit they are practicing—even if counter-racists have a theory about the motivation behind their behaviour.

Quote:
The paramount question should be why should YOU, as an individual person, want to produce a SYSTEM of justice. As soon as YOU figure that out YOU, as an individual person, can immediately go to how to do it, in a logical fashion, following a process that leads you through how to do it and to prove you are doing it you will have to do it.

I overstand VOR/WS wanting to DO something immediately.

How do you get from New York to Los Angeles? Easy, get on a bus. Don't concern yourself with asking why one has Los Angeles marked on the front and another has New Orleans.

Perhaps there is some misunderstanding about whether or not to ask "why". All questions are valid. Each individual has to determine, at a time and place of his or her own choosing, whether asking anything of a person who practices deceit will reveal any relevant answers to anything and what that person will be able to do with the information.

There have already been suggestions made of what white people and non-white people should do in their interaction with each other in the area of people activity known as SEX in this thread by the originator of this thread and the experiment hasn't even been run.

Can you add any counter-racist compensatory strategies and techniques that people can use in the area of people activity known as SEX to the list HelixHair has already made in this thread?
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HelixHair



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Edward Williams wrote:
I suspect they followed the logic for space travel....meaning the process for doing it and doing it. They followed what they thought was the process for space travel and to prove it was the process to them and everyone else they did it. They didn't sit around talking for 50 years about whether the "whys" or the "hows" were more important… It was a response to a statement. Please see HelixHair's request to explain something above


This is correct. However, the statement was a request by me, HelixHair. And, I concur with DarkSwitch in that I am not sure how that statement complied with my request which was as indicated below

HelixHair wrote:
Without explaining the "whys," however, the cultivation of the will to do the "hows and whats" will rarely take place. People need to understand why doing something difficult will work.
Josh wrote:



They understand something will work when you show them HOW.


Josh

Please explain this statement as applied to the first space travel.




Please break it down for me so that I can comprehend that the question “why” was, at no point, critical to specifically motivate people to risk their lives and or time in pursuit of space flight using a proposed "how."
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does everyone realize this is a Work/Study Project for producing a SYSTEM of justice not a SYSTEM of space travel?
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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do.

Im done adding to this thread.

I will study it and try to use the data for a counter racist science project.

No more questions here for me please.



Josh
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HelixHair



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:13 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

...
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Last edited by HelixHair on Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:17 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

...
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Last edited by HelixHair on Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:19 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Edward Williams wrote:
Does everyone realize this is a Work/Study Project for producing a SYSTEM of justice not a SYSTEM of space travel?


Josh wrote:
I do.

Im done adding to this thread.

I will study it and try to use the data for a counter racist science project.

No more questions here for me please.



Josh


I do, too.

General scientific principles, if valid, should hold for space travel as well as counter-racism. I recall that you and Josh (especially) often have often used analogies to demonstrate principles of scientific counter-racism. I don't know of anything more general to scientific effort than the question "why?"

As has often been said on this board by both Josh and Edward, "When logic is followed in the process of asking questions, it won't take long before the person queried will either have to produce truth or stop talking."
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is your experiment designed to result in the theory that we are in a SYSTEM of racism (sex supremacy) instead of a SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy)?
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