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CLOUDSONG
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: CLOUDSONG Reply with quote

The Observer wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:

The Observer,

Are you a white person?


No.

Why do you ask?

I ask because I suspect any white person who is able to practice racism (white supremacy) to be a racist suspect.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: CLOUDSONG Reply with quote

The Observer wrote:
Winston Wolfe wrote:
I've spent some time reading, and re-reading some of the contributions of a person named "cloudsong" who's gone on record as classifying themselves as white....

I suspect Cloudsong is hanging around victims in order to either directly or indirectly look for weaknesses in their strategy or technique that either she or another Racist-Suspect will be able to exploit either now or at some time in the future.

To me, the most dangerous Racist Suspects are the ones who insist on being in close proximity to victims of racsim without using counter-racist logic or counter-racist language.

smallz


You imply cloudsong was "dangerous". Why would you fear cloudsong as a threat?

A waste of time - yes, a bore - yes.

A "dangerous racist suspect"? - No

What could she possibly do to you?

White Envy

Pay close attention to this part...

"For one thing I need a black male - any volunteers? My black male friend does not want to do it, and besides his demeanor is too nice and smiling, he wouldn't have the effect I want of bringing out people's fears of black male power.

Any volunteers?"

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The Observer



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: CLOUDSONG Reply with quote

Edward Williams wrote:
The Observer wrote:
Winston Wolfe wrote:
I've spent some time reading, and re-reading some of the contributions of a person named "cloudsong" who's gone on record as classifying themselves as white....

I suspect Cloudsong is hanging around victims in order to either directly or indirectly look for weaknesses in their strategy or technique that either she or another Racist-Suspect will be able to exploit either now or at some time in the future.

To me, the most dangerous Racist Suspects are the ones who insist on being in close proximity to victims of racsim without using counter-racist logic or counter-racist language.

smallz


You imply cloudsong was "dangerous". Why would you fear cloudsong as a threat?

A waste of time - yes, a bore - yes.

A "dangerous racist suspect"? - No

What could she possibly do to you?

White Envy

Pay close attention to this part...

"For one thing I need a black male - any volunteers? My black male friend does not want to do it, and besides his demeanor is too nice and smiling, he wouldn't have the effect I want of bringing out people's fears of black male power.

Any volunteers?"


Again, EW, this is not evidence that cloudy head is a "dangerous, racist suspect".

The quote you referenced is from one of her "experiments".

Here is the context:

http://www.counter-racism.com/cgi-bin/work-study/viewtopic.php?t=517&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Cloudsong -

Observation:
White people mistreat black people

Hypothesis:
White people mistreat black people for this main reason:

Reason: Competition for power and resources; to do what it takes to maintain white supremacy and greater power, domination in the world, resources, and supremacy in the world.

Gathering Data:
I will set up a situation where I am handing out questionnaires for people walking by - the questions will be about their attitudes towards black people and towards racism.

I will pay a moderate sum to get people to participate.

I will hand the persons the questionnaire, under two separate circumstances.

First circumstance: I will hold hands with a black male friend of mine right in front of them while they are filling out the questionaire, with the black male directing me to do things, and showing power in general.

Second circumstance: I will treat my black male friend slightly condescendingly and contemptuously while they are filling out the questionnaire.

Control: I will have a third circumstance where a black male isn't present.


___________________________________________

EW, what is your point? It seems to me that the goofball is looking for a black male who has an awareness of codetalk and is willing to help her "test" White folks to detect their racial feelings.

Here's more from the link:

cloudsong quotes:

I want to be black but I don't want to be a nigger.

cloudsong

Smallz, what you are saying is that my posts are a joke to you.

I can hear you all laughing at me.

cloudsong

Sorry for the yappy complaining.

I tend to be a spoiled brat who was never spoiled - except by WS/R.

Forgive me.

cloudsong

Josh, I've gotten into screaming fights with her about WS/R, about my involvement here, about my calling into Joe Madison. She did call into his show once, when something really interested her.

Sometimes I get an interest in these things, or a grudging respect. But I think she's(cloudsong's daughter) just rejecting seeing it the way I see it because she's rejecting everything about me right now. She lives in horror that she would ever end up anything like me. I am her anti role model.

And her black friends are on career paths to American success and say things opposite to what I say to her.

I don't have a lot of influence over her and she and I are as different as night and day. No one can believe we're mother/daughter. She's as confident as I am insecure, she has different personality traits.

Sometimes I don't know where she came from! She WANTS to think everything is equal; she's in love with her boyfriend, she loves her friends. She thinks the kind thing is to act like everything's equal I guess. She hasn't learned yet that you can't make the world rose colored for black people by wearing rose colored glasses and ignoring WS/R.

cloudsong

---

My mom wouldn't buy me a black doll, even while telling me how horrible racism was. How did that affect me? Is that why I didn't marry a black man, even though I would have? But what did it put into my brain as a little girl - "oh it's wrong to have a black baby".

I'm trying to differentiate between my actions and thoughts versus ways that I have probably been influenced and conditioned by white supremacy in ways I may not even be aware of.

I am neglecting my daughter and she's home for spring break. I want to help here. If I don't post again for a few days it's not because I don't value your input to me. I find myself feeing guilty if I neglect your questions for even a day. I need to get over that guilt - in any case, I need to give my daughter attention the next couple days. That is why I may not post, not because I'm avoiding your questions.

cloudsong


__________________________________

My feelings toward cloudsong have always ranged from contempt for her combination of weakness and overbearing attitudes to pity for her pathetic life.

At first I thought she was just an arrogant, weird White woman. But after hearing her on the audio talking with Neely Fuller and reading some of her quotes I almost feel sorry for her.

She's really a sad and pathetic figure.

Would you want to trade places with her in a "system of white supremacy"?

I know I wouldn't.

Apparently she is sick a lot and was sexually? abused by a family member as a girl.

Who knows she might have died of cancer by now.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: CLOUDSONG Reply with quote

The Observer wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:
The Observer wrote:
Winston Wolfe wrote:
I've spent some time reading, and re-reading some of the contributions of a person named "cloudsong" who's gone on record as classifying themselves as white....

I suspect Cloudsong is hanging around victims in order to either directly or indirectly look for weaknesses in their strategy or technique that either she or another Racist-Suspect will be able to exploit either now or at some time in the future.

To me, the most dangerous Racist Suspects are the ones who insist on being in close proximity to victims of racsim without using counter-racist logic or counter-racist language.

smallz


You imply cloudsong was "dangerous". Why would you fear cloudsong as a threat?

A waste of time - yes, a bore - yes.

A "dangerous racist suspect"? - No

What could she possibly do to you?

White Envy

Pay close attention to this part...

"For one thing I need a black male - any volunteers? My black male friend does not want to do it, and besides his demeanor is too nice and smiling, he wouldn't have the effect I want of bringing out people's fears of black male power.

Any volunteers?"


Again, EW, this is not evidence that cloudy head is a "dangerous, racist suspect".

The quote you referenced is from one of her "experiments".

Here is the context:

http://www.counter-racism.com/cgi-bin/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=517&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Cloudsong -

Observation:
White people mistreat black people

Hypothesis:
White people mistreat black people for this main reason:

Reason: Competition for power and resources; to do what it takes to maintain white supremacy and greater power, domination in the world, resources, and supremacy in the world.

Gathering Data:
I will set up a situation where I am handing out questionnaires for people walking by - the questions will be about their attitudes towards black people and towards racism.

I will pay a moderate sum to get people to participate.

I will hand the persons the questionnaire, under two separate circumstances.

First circumstance: I will hold hands with a black male friend of mine right in front of them while they are filling out the questionaire, with the black male directing me to do things, and showing power in general.

Second circumstance: I will treat my black male friend slightly condescendingly and contemptuously while they are filling out the questionnaire.

Control: I will have a third circumstance where a black male isn't present.


___________________________________________

EW, what is your point? It seems to me that the goofball is looking for a black male who has an awareness of codetalk and is willing to help her "test" White folks to detect their racial feelings.

Here's more from the link:

cloudsong quotes:

I want to be black but I don't want to be a nigger.

cloudsong

Smallz, what you are saying is that my posts are a joke to you.

I can hear you all laughing at me.

cloudsong

Sorry for the yappy complaining.

I tend to be a spoiled brat who was never spoiled - except by WS/R.

Forgive me.

cloudsong

Josh, I've gotten into screaming fights with her about WS/R, about my involvement here, about my calling into Joe Madison. She did call into his show once, when something really interested her.

Sometimes I get an interest in these things, or a grudging respect. But I think she's(cloudsong's daughter) just rejecting seeing it the way I see it because she's rejecting everything about me right now. She lives in horror that she would ever end up anything like me. I am her anti role model.

And her black friends are on career paths to American success and say things opposite to what I say to her.

I don't have a lot of influence over her and she and I are as different as night and day. No one can believe we're mother/daughter. She's as confident as I am insecure, she has different personality traits.

Sometimes I don't know where she came from! She WANTS to think everything is equal; she's in love with her boyfriend, she loves her friends. She thinks the kind thing is to act like everything's equal I guess. She hasn't learned yet that you can't make the world rose colored for black people by wearing rose colored glasses and ignoring WS/R.

cloudsong

---

My mom wouldn't buy me a black doll, even while telling me how horrible racism was. How did that affect me? Is that why I didn't marry a black man, even though I would have? But what did it put into my brain as a little girl - "oh it's wrong to have a black baby".

I'm trying to differentiate between my actions and thoughts versus ways that I have probably been influenced and conditioned by white supremacy in ways I may not even be aware of.

I am neglecting my daughter and she's home for spring break. I want to help here. If I don't post again for a few days it's not because I don't value your input to me. I find myself feeing guilty if I neglect your questions for even a day. I need to get over that guilt - in any case, I need to give my daughter attention the next couple days. That is why I may not post, not because I'm avoiding your questions.

cloudsong


__________________________________

My feelings toward cloudsong have always ranged from contempt for her combination of weakness and overbearing attitudes to pity for her pathetic life.

At first I thought she was just an arrogant, weird White woman. But after hearing her on the audio talking with Neely Fuller and reading some of her quotes I almost feel sorry for her.

She's really a sad and pathetic figure.

Would you want to trade places with her in a "system of white supremacy"?

I know I wouldn't.

Apparently she is sick a lot and was sexually? abused by a family member as a girl.

Who knows she might have died of cancer by now.

White peopl don'tneed to rn experiments to find out what racism (white supremacy) is...they just need to stop mistreating people on the basisof color. So ask yourself and answer yourself....why would a white female want to be around non-white males and do experiments with them to find out what racism (white supremacy) is.
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The Observer



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Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: CLOUDSONG Reply with quote

Edward Williams wrote:
White peopl don'tneed to rn experiments to find out what racism (white supremacy) is...they just need to stop mistreating people on the basisof color. So ask yourself and answer yourself....why would a white female want to be around non-white males and do experiments with them to find out what racism (white supremacy) is.


I think cloudsong answered that in the thread.

She was trying to detect deception on the part of White people.

She wanted to test White people's emotional reactions to her rather insulting questions and see if they were being more or less honest depending on the presence of a black male co-interviewer.

I do believe cloudsong is a waste of time but if she is an example of a "dangerous White supremacist" you don't have much to worry about, that is other than the threat of being bored to death.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: CLOUDSONG Reply with quote

The Observer wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:
White peopl don'tneed to rn experiments to find out what racism (white supremacy) is...they just need to stop mistreating people on the basisof color. So ask yourself and answer yourself....why would a white female want to be around non-white males and do experiments with them to find out what racism (white supremacy) is.


I think cloudsong answered that in the thread.

She was trying to detect deception on the part of White people.

She wanted to test White people's emotional reactions to her rather insulting questions and see if they were being more or less honest depending on the presence of a black male co-interviewer.

I do believe cloudsong is a waste of time but if she is an example of a "dangerous White supremacist" you don't have much to worry about, that is other than the threat of being bored to death.

White people don't need to run experiments to find out what racism (white supremacy) is...they just need to stop mistreating people on the basis of color.
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Dan Freeman



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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This Thread will eventually self-destruct.

Winston.
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The Observer



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: CLOUDSONG Reply with quote

Edward Williams wrote:
The Observer wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:
White peopl don'tneed to rn experiments to find out what racism (white supremacy) is...they just need to stop mistreating people on the basisof color. So ask yourself and answer yourself....why would a white female want to be around non-white males and do experiments with them to find out what racism (white supremacy) is.


I think cloudsong answered that in the thread.

She was trying to detect deception on the part of White people.

She wanted to test White people's emotional reactions to her rather insulting questions and see if they were being more or less honest depending on the presence of a black male co-interviewer.

I do believe cloudsong is a waste of time but if she is an example of a "dangerous White supremacist" you don't have much to worry about, that is other than the threat of being bored to death.

White people don't need to run experiments to find out what racism (white supremacy) is...they just need to stop mistreating people on the basis of color.


But how do people, incl. White people like Cloudsong, know which White people are "White supremacists" and which ones are not?

They can ask, but what if the White supremacists say no?

I think cloudy was trying to run an experiment using a black male to help her confront White people with her questions.

Do you think it is more difficult for a White supremacist to hide his true feelings in the presence of only a White woman questioner or with a White woman and a black male questioner together?

Which situation makes deception easier?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: CLOUDSONG Reply with quote

The Observer wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:
The Observer wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:
White people don't need to run experiments to find out what racism (white supremacy) is...they just need to stop mistreating people on the basis of color. So ask yourself and answer yourself....why would a white female want to be around non-white males and do experiments with them to find out what racism (white supremacy) is.


I think cloudsong answered that in the thread.

She was trying to detect deception on the part of White people.

She wanted to test White people's emotional reactions to her rather insulting questions and see if they were being more or less honest depending on the presence of a black male co-interviewer.

I do believe cloudsong is a waste of time but if she is an example of a \\\"dangerous White supremacist\\\" you don't have much to worry about, that is other than the threat of being bored to death.

White people don't need to run experiments to find out what racism (white supremacy) is...they just need to stop mistreating people on the basis of color.


But how do people, incl. White people like Cloudsong, know which White people are \\\"White supremacists\\\" and which ones are not?

They can ask, but what if the White supremacists say no?

I think cloudy was trying to run an experiment using a black male to help her confront White people with her questions.

Do you think it is more difficult for a White supremacist to hide his true feelings in the presence of only a White woman questioner or with a White woman and a black male questioner together?

Which situation makes deception easier?

The real question here is why does a white female have to have a non-white male with her to run experiments about what racism (white supremacy) is? Why a non-white male? Additionally, Cloudsong has already admitted she can make more traction working against racism (white supremacy) dealing directly with white people. (This was not a question. Changed the question mark to a period. 6-15-2006)

Neely Fuller Jr. and Cloudsong (Karen K. Kenworthy) at the Welsing Institute 3MB (16 minutes and 20 seconds into the talk)

Draw your own conclusion.
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Last edited by Edward Williams on Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SynQ



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: a world ruled by white supremacy

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:02 pm    Post subject: Observer Reply with quote

Do you have the UICC/S/C by Neely Fuller? and if you do have you read it?

Whether she admits to it or not cloudsong is only looking for ways TO BE WITH Black Males and wants Non-white counter racist ppl here to validate it.

If she is a Racist then her experiment will only make it all more confusing to the Black male "holding hands" with her.

If she isn't a Racist then her experiment will only make it all more confusing to the Black male "holding hands" with her.

Either way it goes she's still practicing White Supremacy

I suspect that any experiment that she conducts with Black males will involved somekind of intimacy.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: surprised Reply with quote

author wrote:
I was surprised to see a discussion of me and my conversation with Mr. Fuller posted here after I left this board, and my full name, Karen K. Kenworthy, used to identify me in bold letters as the woman talking to Mr. Fuller on the tape!

I'm actually in the process of writing a book detailing my experiences on this board and on the code, several chapter written, and I wanted to understand and explain in my book some of the ways people responded to me and to other posters here, and my growth in knowledge, and the ways I was understood and misunderstood, and things I understood and misunderstood that you all said, and how it relates to the broader picture and what both white people and non-white people can learn.

I am proud of everything I said on this tape you have here, because Mr. Fuller is kind and draws me out to help all of us, and because I told the truth. You're not hurting me by posting it, I've played it for many many people and they all think it should be in my book, so it will be because...

I told him the truth. Always. And that's the only thing I can be proud of in life, if I tell the truth!

Yes, what I said about \"I'd like that\" is jarring, and was ill-advised in its bluntness, but it was the truth, that I do find black men attractive as well as white men. I didn't mean that I wanted to be unfaithful and should have been more clear. However, Dr. Welsing in the Isis Papers says that of course white woman are attracted to black men, as are black women. I don't think that someone who tells the truth should be criticized.

I learned a lot about why it's wrong to take black men from a community that needs them and from black women, something I don't think many other white women have come to see. I feel I learned that from this experience and it's a new way of seeing things.

I am including the transcript of this tape in my book, and references to this site and old transcripts from here and from other people who posted on the code - Joe, Mel, Keni, etc., and of course John Bilal and the moderators here. (everyone is in the book! :)

You all had a valuable contribution.

I couldn't remember my old password. this will be my ONLY post here.

Karen K. Kenworthy

As stated in an e-mail response to you Ms. Kenworthy, all content included on this site, such as text, graphics, logos, button icons, images, audio clips, and software, is the property of Counter-Racism.com or its content suppliers and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. The compilation (meaning the collection, arrangement, and assembly) of all content on this site is the exclusive property of Counter-Racism.com and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. All software used on this site is the property of Counter-Racism.com or its software suppliers and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. The content and software on this site may be used as for study, research, shopping, and selling. Any other use, including the reproduction, modification, distribution, transmission, republication, display, or performance, of the content on this site is strictly prohibited.

In order to use any information on the Counter-Racism website for profit you must obtain specific legal authority from Edward Williams himself.

Thank you.

Edward Williams
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